[ace5000]

Hello All,

I recently developed a engine "tic" and let a friend mechanic listen to it.
He said it was a "lifter" sound and thought maybe an oil additive might work.

Question: Will a valve adjustment fix this? I have never had one done.
Also, what else can I do?

Many thanks.

2006
205,000 miles
Always 5w20 full synthetic

 

[ace5000]

Re: Engine Lifter Noise

Can anyone help?

 

[rollinhonda]

With that kind of mileage I would certainly have a valve adjustment done. There is a greater risk there are valves that are too tight, and you will not hear those.

205K, have you had the timing belt changed???? It should have been at least once by now.
If you do the TB job have the valve adjustment included.

 

[Dnick]

^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree with Rollin wrt timing belt. Even if it was done the first time @ 105K miles, you're just about due again; and it could be that your timing belt tensioner is worn out & causing some racket.
In any case, at 205K miles, you should definitely check/adjust the valves. Chances are great that they are not within tolerance. It just makes sense to do this, and with that kind of 'lifter' noise, (actually happens at the 'rocker' assembly up top), it's a cinch decision.

FYI, I believe we have solid lifters in the RL, so the "lifter noise", usually an expression applied to faulty hydraulic lifters - but results in the same excessive gap in the valve train, would more correctly be referred to as valve clearance noise or sometimes "tappet" noise. There is some very remote possibility that a problem exists with those solid lifters, but I believe that to be highly unlikely.

You can't go wrong by getting it done (valve adjustment). Get 'er done! :act035:

 

[rollinhonda]

True, I believe the ticking (if from the valve train) is not a 'lifter' in the old hydraulic lifter sense. It is likely a loose tappet more seriously a worn rocker, etc.
But it could be from the TB belt area as well.

It seems you have done well for 205K miles. That is super! Unless you had some other issues yet to be revealed.

 

[Bogus919]

Man, this post dredges up nightmares with me.

I've put about 25k miles on mine with the tick that I wasn't able to resolve, I am to this day still working on it.

Look up "Engine Clatter at Idle" on this forum and it's well documented on what all has been done.

I replaced the timing belt and all the components early just to be safe, I ran the engine without the accessory belt for a short time to be sure that wasn't it, the valves were adjusted...... 5 times. Rocker shaft bridges were re-torqued...flex-plate was inspected, knock sensor was checked, cylinders were probed...plugs were torqued thrice...exhaust system checked for leaks.

What I'm currently working on with it is possibly a faulty rear camshaft (from pitting). My Honda tech buddie wants me to tear it down and check the lobes for wear and the rocker rollers for a possible cracked wheel.... he has isolated the ticking to that area..that's where I'm at now cause I simply haven't had the time to throw 5-6 hours at the truck. ...Maybe this Fall.

oh, almost forgot, I used Lucas Synthetic Oil additive that gave me an additional 6psi to the (manual oil guage I've installed) at idle but helped none with the ticking sound.

I sincerely hope that your issue is one of the ones I listed or something simpler, if not, just know the truck will keep on "keepin-on" with the noise.

As a side note, we don't have lifters at all (at least what we consider lifters) the over head cam design has the camshaft lobe hitting a roller on the back side of the rocker arm that then pushes down on the valve stem via the adjustment screw. The whole assembly is a blast to remove from the head, especially when you only have two hands and need 3. .....rubber bands, I know I know.

 

[Dnick]

Of course! ..... :act060: ..... with overhead cam there wouldn't be lifters, would there.... at least not in the old "push rod" sense. 'Feelin' a little silly.

I guess I'd like to take a closer look at our valve train someday (I've never really examined it, even on paper). I understand it's fairly complex with the VTEC, etc. It does seem that could be an easy source, given all of the components at work there. Too bad you don't have a spare assembly two swap out to check it out.

One thing you 'could' do in order to validate that valve train as the source of your "clatter", would be to swap the rocker assemblies (shafts & all) from front to rear head & vice versa. If the clatter follows the rocker assembly, then you've found your culprit. The parts look to all be the same on both heads.

 

[ace5000]

Thank you all for your valued posts!

UPDATE: I made an appt. at the Honda stealership on Wednesday - but thought I should replace the plugs 1st as it has been 100K since the last change. They looked really bad and two of the front plugs were very loose. In fact, none of them were tight.
After installing the front 3, I started it up and... no change. But, after replacing the rear 3... no more loud tic!!! It had to be a loose plug, or it was not firing right?

1. Should I still proceed with the valve adjustment? The estimate was $300 - $350.
I'm not saying the engine sounds perfect, but it is running pretty darn good.

2. Do I really have to replace all that timing belt, water pump stuff again? One guy told me just to inspect it...

205,000 miles

 

[rollinhonda]

Of course if you plan on dumping the truck in the near future, you may not want to make the investment in the belt.
Every 100-125K is generally recommeded.

You will not be able to tell much by "inspecting it", stress on the belt is not typically visible.
The damage should it let go can be catastrophic.

As far as the valves, you are betting on none of them having too little gap and in the risk of burning. You will not 'hear' those. But valve seats receding and the gap closing is a reality as the miles pile on. I am sure it runs fine, but changes due to wear are gradual as is any degradation in driving feel.

 

[ace5000]

No - I did replace the belt once at 100K. But should I do the water pump, tensioner, etc. again?
I do plan to keep it.

I decided to do the valve timing anyway. Thanks.

 

[eurban]

Ace,

Its not valve "timing" but valve clearance adjustment. If the timing belt is installed correctly, valve timing will be correct . . .

 

[speedlever]

The TB service is due every ~105k miles. So you are due a 2nd TB at this point or reasonably soon. Might as well do the water pump too as well as the hydraulic tensioner and maybe the cam seals if they are leaking.

And what's the condition of the serpentine belt and idler/tensioner pulley? What is the condition of your radiator/tranny fittings? Have your O2 sensors ever been replaced?

There's money to be spent... but when you basically get 100k trouble free miles between major maintenance, this is a bargain, imo. (pay me now or pay me later!)

 

[Dnick]

No - I did replace the belt once at 100K. But should I do the water pump, tensioner, etc. again?
I do plan to keep it.

I decided to do the valve timing anyway. Thanks.

Smart move on the valve adjustment.

Regarding the TB.... you should get it done, but would probably get away with not doing it for a good long number of miles. You SHOULD inspect the tensioner in any case to be sure it's not leaking (it's a hydraulic tensioner). Most don't agree, but if you're short on dough, you can skip the water pump & take your chances it won't go out on you. It wouldn't be catastrophic if it did fail (unlike the TB itself). No reason the WP couldn't go a good 150K or even 200, presuming you keep proper coolant in it.
The universal truth is that the labor 'forces' replacement when you're in there doing the TB. But I'd be the reality is you could do it every other time (210K miles).
Full disclosure: I changed mine with the TB... came with the kit for not that much more dinero.

 

[Bogus919]

Another thing to point out is that when you do decide to sell the RL, you can use the "has new TB installed at 210,00 miles" thing to help ease the sell. It will either comfort a potential private buyer that the right work was done and they won't be needing to shell out 1k soon or help trade the truck off and get some more value out of it.

If you don't feel comfortable doing the work yourself, I'd suggest finding a good independent shop and not the dealership....there are folks out there that do nothing but change Honda TB and can do a good job in under 2 hours.

 

[Bogus919]

One thing you 'could' do in order to validate that valve train as the source of your "clatter", would be to swap the rocker assemblies (shafts & all) from front to rear head & vice versa. If the clatter follows the rocker assembly, then you've found your culprit. The parts look to all be the same on both heads.

That would be something I could get away with on my Buick, hell, I could completely swap the heads to different sides and it would still run. With this engine I'm afraid it's not that easy. Even the camshafts have different part numbers. .... it's always harder to take risks on your daily driver.

I always wait until it's 90 degrees outside before I work on the truck, that way I'm completely soaked within a few min of being under the hood in my garage.

 

[ace5000]

UPDATE: I took the Ridge into the Honda Stealership today to get the valve adjustment done even though the noise is all gone. They called me at work to say the tech said it sounded just fine and an adjustment was not necessary as they didn't want to take it apart without good reason. No charge and a free loaner.

Comments?

 

[speedlever]

Your call. Read this thread and then tell me what you think:

http://honda-tech.com/odyssey-|-rid...miles-less-not-105k-honda-recommends-2726472/

 

[Dnick]

On a 2006 you should get it done IMO. The mechanic is applying a pretty standard measure to the issue (if they are not making noise, they don't need to be adjusted). But as Speed is pointing out with that link, our RL exhaust valves actually tend to get tighter (which produces no noise), which can eventually lead to burnt valves. Notice I said "can". I don't know of too many issues in this regard, but after 10 years, you might want to apply some preventive medicine, if you're inclined that way. Especially with that many miles.

Why not help out your old engine where you can to keep it healthy. If they all check out within tolerance, then they don't need to even crack an adjustment nut.... and all is "unharmed". The only loss is the labor cost to gain access to do the measurements; but what you've gained in return is peace of mind that you're properly watching out for potential issues that can crop up with that many miles / years on your truck.

Your mechanic may be thinking he's doing you a favor (not ripping you off for something he thinks you don't need). That reflects good intentions, but doesn't reflect the peculiarities of our engines. On the other hand, if he's shying away because he's not comfortable adjusting the valves on your truck, you probably want to take it somewhere else anyway. Have fun sizing up your options.

 

[rollinhonda]

Great advice! .. that ^^^^.

 

[Bogus919]

I would have to say that I agree as well, it helps to take that prespective when you read how Dnick lays it out. I too have heard of very few issues of this in person, (and I maintain a fleet of vehicles) if you see it, it's online and that's generally where the "noisy wheel makes the most noise" but I do know reduced to no lash leaves the possiblity of leaving a valve open.


It's like getting a colonscope at age 50.... do you need it? Hopefully not but why let it go unchecked when you could possibly head off a larger problem down the road. ..... sorry for that example lol