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Maintenance Minder - Back to Back Service Code 3 (Replace Transmission/Transfer Fluid)?

3K views 6 replies 3 participants last post by  speedlever 
#1 ·
Hey y'all,

I have a Honda Ridgeline RTL 2014. I love it! I bought it used from Carmax back in Feb. 2019 with roughly 50,000 miles. I've done the regular oil changes and services suggested at the interval provided by maintenance minder since.

At the beginning of November 2019 was my last oil change and service that I did as it was due according to the maintenance minder then. One of those service codes that came up was service code 3 which is replace transmission/transfer fluid, so I did both then. The mechanic reset the maintenance minder as afterwords it was at 100%. I even had a screenshot that I took of last November's service codes and confirmed that 3 showed up.

Faster forward to April 2020 and my next service is soon. The maintenance minder just hit 15% oil life and displayed current rounds of service codes. What came to my surprise however is the same service code of 3 which again is to replace transmission/transfer fluid. I can't see why maintenance minder would tell me to service my transmission when I just did it in my last service interval. I've been doing some digging, and it appears that roughly every 30000-45000 miles it's good to do transmission/transfer fluid replacement. Since Nov 2019 (which was my last service completion with maintenance minder) and today April 2020 (which is showing my next upcoming services on maintenance minder), I've roughly gone around 10,000. I can't remember exactly right now but it wasn't anywhere near 30000-45000 miles which is the suggested transmission/transfer fluid transmission cycle.

I'm trying to figure out if my Maintenance minder is faulty, or I am just interpreting wrong. Any info would be great! Trying to avoid having to talk to Honda dealership as I'm just not a fan of getting work done at a dealership, but they might be the only folks who know the nuances of Maintenance Minder. I typically use some local mechanics who are very knowledgeable, just don't think they know the ins and outs of Honda's Maintenance Minder. Maybe some of y'all do or have some of your own experiences around this behavior and can share what came out of it. I love the fact that Honda added Maintenance Minder in more recent cars especially the oil life part but having it generate recommended service codes is awesome! My car before this was a Honda Accord 2005 and didn't go to this level of detail with service codes nor had adaptive engine oil life since it didn't have Maintenance Minder. All it had was general suggested intervals provided in the manual. With the Honda Ridgeline 2014 that I have now, I'm trying to follow Maintenance Minder as I know how important it is to keep up on preventative maintenance. I love the ease that it gives to this whole thing, but see no need of replacing transmission/transfer fluid already and am losing my trust in the system after this!

Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
I've not heard of back to back subcode 3 appearing like that.

Did you also service the rear diff with VTM-4 fluid? In normal service, I would expect the transfer assembly (requires GL4 or 5 hypoid gear oil 80w-90), transmission fluid (ATF DW-1) and the rear differential (VTM-4 fluid) to be changed every 30k miles.

From the 2008 OM (and I assume it's still the same for your 2014 G1 Ridgeline). Note that the alert will pop up at the OCI nearest the next interval which is around 30k miles in normal service for subcodes 1,2 and 3 (after the initial change at the OCI just prior to reaching 45k miles)


Note that severe service conditions halve the intervals and is not called out on the MM:


That seems confusing to me. Let me summarize here: in normal service, a new G1 Ridgeline will require normal oil changes per the MM and the rear diff will be called for service at the OCI just prior to reaching 15k miles, then every 30k miles thereafter.

The tranny fluid and transfer assembly will get the callout at the OCI just prior to reaching 45k miles. Coincidentally, the rear diff will be called for this service at the same time (15k plus 30k = 45k miles). Then these 3 units will each require service every 30k thereafter.

Severe service halves those intervals.

Since you got your Ridgeline with 50k on it, you probably have no idea what service had been done prior to your purchase. That would be a good time to do a complete fluid and filter change to establish your maintenance baseline.

When the MM gets reset, it assumes all maintenance called out at the 15% alert has been accomplished. That's one reason why it's important to let the MM sequence at least to the 15% alert. On the G1 Ridgeline, you can do a force retrieve process to see what maintenance will be called out before reaching that 15% alert. If you don't let it get to the 15% alert to see what's coming up, you may miss some maintenance callouts.

None of that explains why you got back-to-back subcode 3 alerts though. Unless there's something else to the story that we don't know. But I hope that helps you understand a bit more about the system.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Code 3 in the 2006-2008 is mileage-based and displays at the oil change interval nearest 45,000 miles then every 30,000 miles.

Code 3 in the 2009-present is calculated based on actual driving conditions and shares a similar interval for the average driver.

Aside from a software bug, the only thing I can think of that would cause this is if the individual who reset the Maintenance Minder used an HDS or similarly-capable scan tool to reset only the oil life independent of other MM codes. If this was done, then code 3 wasn't actually reset - just "suppressed" until the remaining oil life reached 15% at which time code 3 became visible again.
 
#4 ·
@zroger73 Thanks for the clarification of the differences between the G1 Ridgeline MM systems. I didn't realize the 09-14 differed from the 06-08 in how the algorithm works.
 
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#5 ·
Hey y'all, thanks for the additional information!

I looked up my mileage on the car at the time of Nov. 2019 service. It was at 71480. Today, it is at ~80,500 k.

@speedlever to answer your question, "Did you also service the rear diff with VTM-4 fluid?" Yes. I did service code 6 (rear diff) as well as service code 3 (tran/transfer) from my last oil/service work in early Nov 2019. Please see attached screenshot. The pic on the left side of the screenshot is the service codes from then. The pic in the middle and on the right is the service codes being displayed in April 2020 (see service code 3) and the mileage as of a week ago (pic on right).

"When the MM gets reset, it assumes all maintenance called out at the 15% alert has been accomplished. That's one reason why it's important to let the MM sequence at least to the 15% alert. "

I definitely always let it hit 15% before I change the oil since I got the car. In fact, I've always done the services when it hits 5-10%.

"Since you got your Ridgeline with 50k on it, you probably have no idea what service had been done prior to your purchase. That would be a good time to do a complete fluid and filter change to establish your maintenance baseline."

I purchased the vehicle from Carmax. It had one owner before and that person kept the car in prestigious care as far as I could tell, and as I understand, Carmax did fluid/filter exchanges when I bought the car (at least for some things where they saw fit, not sure everything, but there a pretty reputable company and do a good job selling quality used cars). I had one of my mechanics look at the car as well and thought it was in great condition! Further, in July of 2019, during my first service interval, I had the air and cabin filter changed, rear disc brake pads and rotor replaced (they needed to be), and the oil change done. My plan was to do the rear diff at the next service irrespective of if the service light came on since I knew that should be done at a decent frequency and yeah wasn't sure if Carmax/previous owner had done that in awhile). Thankfully the service codes presented in early Nov. 2019 told me to do the rear diff then.

"On the G1 Ridgeline, you can do a force retrieve process to see what maintenance will be called out before reaching that 15% alert."

Any special tools to do this? Does it have consequences?

@zroger73: "the only thing I can think of that would cause this is if the individual who reset the Maintenance Minder used an HDS or similarly-capable scan tool to reset only the oil life independent of other MM codes. If this was done, then code 3 wasn't actually reset - just "suppressed" until the remaining oil life reached 15% at which time code 3 became visible again. "

I read this in another topic somewhere in forum before I posted that the individual/service technician can manually bypass the master reset for Maintenance Minder and use an HDS or similarly-capable scan to reset only oil life, but if that's the case wouldn't that mean I should see the same service codes as early Nov. 2019 (1,2,3, and 6, not just 1 and 6 as I'm seeing now)? Or is it possible that with this tool they can reset all codes individually as well including the oil life and just forgot to reset the one code, 6? I have a hard time seeing why a service technician would want to go this route, but I suppose it's possible. Maybe that's their standard at the place I took it to so that they don't have to figure out the manufacturer's reset process and just use a universal tool to reset codes (if that HDS or similar tool is in fact universal to other car manufacturers version of Maintenance Minder).

@speedlever + @zroger73:

401367


401368


"The tranny fluid and transfer assembly will get the callout at the OCI just prior to reaching 45k miles. Coincidentally, the rear diff will be called for this service at the same time (15k plus 30k = 45k miles). Then these 3 units will each require service every 30k thereafter."

"Code 3 in the 2006-2008 is mileage-based and displays at the oil change interval nearest 45,000 miles then every 30,000 miles."

"Code 3 in the 2009-present is calculated based on actual driving conditions and shares a similar interval for the average driver. "

1st that guide says that those 30,000 for tranny/transfer and 15,000 for rear diff on the 2006-2008 Ridgeline G1 is for severe riding conditions which I'm not doing for sure. However I'm hearing from some posts here that 30k is actually a good interval to change all those for normal/average conditions. Sort of conflicting (or maybe I am misunderstanding) so just want to make sure, what would be the interval for average/normal driving conditions? For transmission/transfer fluid? For rear diff?

My understanding (based on my readings in my manual and what I've read so far on the internet/other posts here in the forum), even with Ridgeline G1 2009-present is that only oil life is calculated based on actual driving conditions. All other services are calculated/displayed when their "near enough" to the next the normal/average driver interval for that particular service. In other words, except for oil life, in the Ridgeline G1 all services are still provided by Maintenance Minder based off normal/average intervals--no "adaptive" calculation is done on those. I think that's what you're saying above even for 2009+ G1 but please clarify there.

I know I am not a severe driver. I do live in Utah, but I am not driving unpaved roads that much (a few time here and there but pretty infrequent) nor at very low vehicle speeds. I haven't even used the diff lock since this summer. I am an outdoor enthusiast and hit the ski resort/backcountry ski and sometimes have to endure snow covered roads (have snow tires actually) but the driving I am doing is pretty average/normal for a Ridgeline driver. My trunk is typcially empty (have one of those low profile covers on my bed/not raised...seems pretty light) nor do I tow anything.
 

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#6 ·
I read this in another topic somewhere in forum before I posted that the individual/service technician can manually bypass the master reset for Maintenance Minder and use an HDS or similarly-capable scan to reset only oil life, but if that's the case wouldn't that mean I should see the same service codes as early Nov. 2019 (1,2,3, and 6, not just 1 and 6 as I'm seeing now)? Or is it possible that with this tool they can reset all codes individually as well including the oil life and just forgot to reset the one code, 6? I have a hard time seeing why a service technician would want to go this route, but I suppose it's possible. Maybe that's their standard at the place I took it to so that they don't have to figure out the manufacturer's reset process and just use a universal tool to reset codes (if that HDS or similar tool is in fact universal to other car manufacturers version of Maintenance Minder).
The manufacturer-specific HDS (Honda Diagnostic System) can reset each code individually. "Universal" scan tools generally cannot; however, there may be some higher end aftermarket scan tools I'm not immediately aware of that can. As an aside, some Honda models allow the owner to reset individual maintenance items without any special equipment - the Ridgeline does not.

There are certain situations where individual maintenance items should be reset:

Example 1: The VTM-4 unit fails and is replaced with a new one and filled with new fluid. Code 6 should be reset, but not the others.

Example 2: A recall or service bulletin calls for replacement of the transmission fluid to address an issue. Code 3 should be reset, but not the others.

Example 3: A collision occurs resulting in replacement of the engine and transmission, but not the VTM-4 unit. Codes A/B and 6 should be reset, but not code 3.

Example 4: A maintenance item is performed sooner than prompted such as the VTM-4 fluid is replaced due to severe conditions.

My understanding (based on my readings in my manual and what I've read so far on the internet/other posts here in the forum), even with Ridgeline G1 2009-present is that only oil life is calculated based on actual driving conditions. All other services are calculated/displayed when their "near enough" to the next the normal/average driver interval for that particular service. In other words, except for oil life, in the Ridgeline G1 all services are still provided by Maintenance Minder based off normal/average intervals--no "adaptive" calculation is done on those. I think that's what you're saying above even for 2009+ G1 but please clarify there.
From the 2009-2014 Ridgeline service information: "The Maintenance Minder is an important feature of the multi-information display. Based on engine and transmission operating conditions, and accumulated engine revolutions, the Ridgeline's onboard computer (PCM) calculates the remaining engine oil and the transmission fluid life."

From the 2008 OM (and I assume it's still the same for your 2014 G1 Ridgeline). Note that the alert will pop up at the OCI nearest the next interval which is around 30k miles in normal service for subcodes 1,2 and 3 (after the initial change at the OCI just prior to reaching 45k miles)
The 2014 Owner's Manual reads differently. Since it calculates transmission fluid life in addition to engine oil life, there's no longer a need for the "severe" interval. The MM will decrease the code 3 interval based on driving conditions.

401383
 
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