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I'll go ahead and display my ignorance and ask....why is time a factor? It doesn't "go bad" on the shelf like milk or other perishable substance, right? Didn't the dinosaurs who gave their lives to make oil do so tens of millions of years ago?

Before someone scolds me, I'm not saying time isn't a factor; just asking why.

TIA
 

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I'll go ahead and display my ignorance and ask....why is time a factor? It doesn't "go bad" on the shelf like milk or other perishable substance, right? Didn't the dinosaurs who gave their lives to make oil do so tens of millions of years ago?

Before someone scolds me, I'm not saying time isn't a factor; just asking why.

TIA
Excellent question.

Unlike brake fluid, engine oil is not hygroscopic so it doesn't "suck up" moisture from the atmosphere. And, it's true that engine oil doesn't spoil, per se, at least not before the vehicle rusts away.

Annual oil change recommendations appear to be based on the premise that low-mileage vehicles are driven for periods of time too short to evaporate any fuel or moisture that may have made its way into the crankcase.

As long as you drive the vehicle long enough to get it good and hot on occasion, I don't see any harm in letting the oil go longer than a year, but the manufacturer must issue a boilerplate recommendation based on the worst-case scenario. Otherwise, you'd end up with pages of different scenarios.

Some of GM's vehicles do include time as a factor in calculating engine oil life. If you don't start the engine in a Corvette or Colorado, for example, the oil life monitor will decrease from 100% to 0% over a year.
 

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you see in the manual it states there is an assumption the oil is changed when prompted by the Maintenance Minder in order to reset the oil life, or it is your assumption?
 

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you see in the manual it states there is an assumption the oil is changed when prompted by the Maintenance Minder in order to reset the oil life, or it is your assumption?
What other assumption can there be?

The MM does not prompt for sub codes 1-6 unless the oil life is allowed to reach 15%.

If you keep resetting the oil life to 100% before it reaches 15%, you'll never see the sub codes.

If you never see the sub codes and since Honda doesn't publish a maintenance schedule, you'll never know what needs to be done.

Therefore, if you drove 2,000 miles per year, changed your own oil every year, and reset the MM each time, you'll never be prompted for any non-engine oil service. Eventually, the cabin and engine air filters would clog, the transmission, transfer case, and differential would fail, the timing belt would break, the tires would wear unevenly, the water pump would leak, the cooling system would corrode - all because you kept resetting the MM and weren't aware of when to perform those other services.
 

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Well, the other assumption would be to reset the oil life as indicated in the manual after changing the oil once per year.

The MM does not prompt for sub codes 1-6 unless the oil life is allowed to reach 15%.
If you keep resetting the oil life to 100% before it reaches 15%, you'll never see the sub codes.
Therefore, if you drove 2,000 miles per year, changed your own oil every year, and reset the MM each time, you'll never be prompted for any non-engine oil service.
How do you know this? Is this published somewhere?
 

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I think you may be assuming too much, but that just my opinion. I contacted corp on three separate occasions all with the same scenario...and they all told me the same thing- reset your engine oil life display after changing your own oil (given its been 12 months, you only have ~3000 miles and there are no codes showing).
 

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I think you may be assuming too much, but that just my opinion. I contacted corp on three separate occasions all with the same scenario...and they all told me the same thing- reset your engine oil life display after changing your own oil (given its been 12 months, you only have ~3000 miles and there are no codes showing).
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a 🦆.

:)

I have a challenge for you... Can you find me one report of a Honda owner who was prompted by the Maintenance Minder to perform service without allowing the oil life to reach 15%?
 

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Ive been following the conversations on the MM since I bought my 2019 RL. I've owned a fleet of Honda's over the years, but I'm one of those guys that keep them forever! My last purchase was in 2006 when they still printed a maintenance schedule. I get what they are doing...having spent many years in the petroleum industry. They use the same sort of algorithms for equipment maintenance. But its still hard to change what we are used to...
With that said... Continue with the discussion. We are ALL learning allot through this type of dialog...
(I cant say for sure what my plan is...i still have time, but these discussions help...)
:)
 

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Having a 2WD and drive 6k miles a year and have 40% on the monitor i do my own oil changes and tire rotations and fluid changes,I will change my tranny fluid at 45k miles and the coolant at 50k miles and the timing belt at 100k miles,plugs at 60k miles.I in no way will change the oil and not reset the oil monitor.Honda dropped the ball on the MM.It should have a old school schedule for the owners who drive fewer miles.
I have worked on autos for 48 years and this Honda is no different the any auto when it comes keeping it running for many years.(y)

This is why I think the maintenance minder is lame and a waste of time to me. I drive 6k-7.5k per year as it's not my daily driver. It's used mostly on weekends. The MM does not cover all drivers so it's essentially useless to me. Time as in years will likely dictate when I changed fluids. I hit 5 years the transmission and diff fluid is getting changed I don't care what the mileage is. Same for the brake fluid. And if my lab reports indicate I'm good at 18 months on my oil quality I'll change the damn oil once every 2 years.
 

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If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a 🦆.

:)

I have a challenge for you... Can you find me one report of a Honda owner who was prompted by the Maintenance Minder to perform service without allowing the oil life to reach 15%?
I'm not sure Id rely on reports of "he said she said" on the internetwebs. I would however take the advise of the manufacturer of the vehicle itself.

But please, don't take my word for it, ask them yourself


Please let us know if you get a different answer than I did.
 

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It’s been debated for many, many years. You won’t get a concrete answer one way or another. I am friends with a number of mechanics, an ex AMA tuner/crew chief. I’ve asked them all about this and each one said that method is fine for a race engine, and that would be a preferred method, but not on their private car for daily use.
When I bought my M109R new in 2008, I very carefully broke it in according to Suzuki recommendations. At about 45,000 miles, after an extended high-speed run, it acted funny and I pulled over and shut it down immediately. The oil level was very low; it had been blowing by the rings and out the left air filter, a "not uncommon" trait of these bikes. I was fortunate to be fairly close to a gas station, so I walked for oil and added it to the correct level, then limped home, but the damage was done. It needed a front jug and piston, so I also had the transmission "upgraded" and the gears undercut to resolve a known second gear issue. Anyway, my mechanic told me that it was obvious that there had been blowby for a long time.

When I got it back, I chose to break it in by the Motoman method. I warmed it up thoroughly, then went back and forth down a back road in the country, doing as he recommends. I did this for an extended period of time on two consecutive days. I figure that it cannot be any worse than what I experienced. 45,000 miles is not acceptable!

I use Rotella T4 conventional oil in all of my bikes (high in zinc, great protection against shearing forces from the transmission) and have never had a problem before this. I guess I will find out, in the future, if what I did was beneficial or harmful to the bike. Since it is not a daily rider, it may be a long time until I get the verdict!
 

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I emailed a friend of mine who has been the service manager of a Honda dealer for many years and this was his reply...

Hey Roger!

You would reset it. When you go to reset it early, it should give you the code that it would call for on upcoming alert. You would need to do the maint listed at the time of reset. I am on vacation until Monday so I can’t go test that theory on a Ridgeline but you can try. Let me know if this doesn’t help and I will look into it Monday.

Thanks, Cory H*****
Based on the information we have so far, we can conclude that the Maintenance Minder will not prompt for maintenance on its own if you keep resetting it early, but it will display all upcoming maintenance items at the time of reset. So, pay attention to the codes that appear during the annual reset and perform those additional services.
 

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When I bought my M109R new in 2008, I very carefully broke it in according to Suzuki recommendations. At about 45,000 miles, after an extended high-speed run, it acted funny and I pulled over and shut it down immediately. The oil level was very low; it had been blowing by the rings and out the left air filter, a "not uncommon" trait of these bikes. I was fortunate to be fairly close to a gas station, so I walked for oil and added it to the correct level, then limped home, but the damage was done. It needed a front jug and piston, so I also had the transmission "upgraded" and the gears undercut to resolve a known second gear issue. Anyway, my mechanic told me that it was obvious that there had been blowby for a long time.

When I got it back, I chose to break it in by the Motoman method. I warmed it up thoroughly, then went back and forth down a back road in the country, doing as he recommends. I did this for an extended period of time on two consecutive days. I figure that it cannot be any worse than what I experienced. 45,000 miles is not acceptable!

I use Rotella T4 conventional oil in all of my bikes (high in zinc, great protection against shearing forces from the transmission) and have never had a problem before this. I guess I will find out, in the future, if what I did was beneficial or harmful to the bike. Since it is not a daily rider, it may be a long time until I get the verdict!
All my bikes get broken in the same way. The ex AMA crew chief (Superbike crew chief) told me probably 17-18 years ago.

1. Heat cycle the engine a number of times. When you turn it off, leave it off until the motor completely cools down
2. First 100 miles set a rpm limit, say 5k or 6k RPM’s.
3. Never let the throttle sit at the same place during the first 1000 miles. Constant accel/decel
4. No WFO
5. Next hundred miles same, but go up to 1k rpm’s.
6. Every hundred miles go up 1k RPM’s, follow all the above.
7. When going to your set rev limit, take it up there then back it back down. Do not hold it there for any length of time.
8. At 1000 miles take it to redline, drain the oil to get the metal out of it, and ride it normally.

I’ve followed some semblance of this for almost 20 years with my autos and motorcycles. Obviously 1000cc literbike have much higher rev limits than autos do so just followed the same philosophy, just with lower rev ceilings in truck/autos. Never had any issues, never burned oil and on the dyno they always are at the top end of highest HP of that model. Always ended up being strong motors without any real issues other than regular interval maintenance. I have marveled at the bikes after multiple track days, then maybe a twisty session, beating on them like step children and they don’t burn any oil. If I’m on one I’m up to no good at all. I’m not commuting or doing Iron Butt. Knee down or puck grazing. Same for my STI’s as it relates to the motors. The above is somewhere in the middle of Motoman, and the granny nanny OEM recommendations some mfr’s state in the manual. The debate is as old as the internet + another 50 years and will rage on. You can count on oil type, oil change interval, and break in methods being debated for many years to come. At least until the millennials take over and all that is offered is electric vehicles with AC/DC synchronous motors. You’ll be back in black then. I actually loathe breaking in motors, it’s a bit of a chore, and I’ll admit Motoman’s deal is much easier than varying throttle for the first month to couple of months depending on the use. But it has served me well. It really only matters if you keep things long term anyhow. Most people are just gonna trade it in or sell before high mileage occurs anyhow.

Your experience with your bike is exactly why I send lab samples of oil off. It’ll tip you off that something is wrong. Your oil is like a polygraph test for the motor. If something ain’t right oil analysis will tell you every time. I’ve talked to a number of track rats that got a bad lab report, tore it apart and found the culprit. Pretty beneficial to catch stuff early and fix vs. being on the track banging away at 12 or 14k rpm’s and have the motor grenade on you. Low slides are no fun at all and high sides will most likely be a trip to the ER or worse.

Rotella is good stuff, and deals can be had. I’m sure you are running the weight with no friction modifiers in it. I‘ve been running Amsoil in everything, even my lawn equipment, for 20 years. Lab samples are always stellar and until that changes I ain’t changing. I even caught my carb going on me before my mower busted and replaced it. Didn’t miss a single of week of cutting the crass. I change my bikes oil out every 2 years since mileage is split between them. Was wasting time and money prior. YMMV.
 

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Based on the information we have so far, we can conclude that the Maintenance Minder will not prompt for maintenance on its own if you keep resetting it early, but it will display all upcoming maintenance items at the time of reset. So, pay attention to the codes that appear during the annual reset and perform those additional services.
So a year has gone by and, as Honda recommends, you've changed the oil before the MM prompted you. You reset the oil life display and made note of the upcoming maintenance items which you then proceed to perform. But once you perform these additional services, you won't be able to reset the codes for them because the MM did not actually prompt for them yet. You have two choices: pay a dealer to do the work and reset the individual codes with his tool, or do the work yourself and only pay a dealer to reset the codes. They got you one way or another.
 

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So a year has gone by and, as Honda recommends, you've changed the oil before the MM prompted you. You reset the oil life display and made note of the upcoming maintenance items which you then proceed to perform. But once you perform these additional services, you won't be able to reset the codes for them because the MM did not actually prompt for them yet. You have two choices: pay a dealer to do the work and reset the individual codes with his tool, or do the work yourself and only pay a dealer to reset the codes. They got you one way or another.
Or, just change the oil every year and leave the Maintenance Minder alone so that the oil life reaches 15% and let it prompt you for what is actually due based on actual driving conditions and distance traveled. Have all of those services except for the oil change performed then reset the Maintenance Minder. As long as you keep running out of time before the MM reaches 15%, then there will never be a situation where any maintenance item will be past due.
 

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I emailed a friend of mine who has been the service manager of a Honda dealer for many years and this was his reply...
Based on the information we have so far, we can conclude that the Maintenance Minder will not prompt for maintenance on its own if you keep resetting it early, but it will display all upcoming maintenance items at the time of reset. So, pay attention to the codes that appear during the annual reset and perform those additional services.
Thanks for confirming that you do actually reset the MM when changing your own oil based on time, not codes. Also if you read his reply, you can see he states "in theory". I'd refrain from rushing to the conclusion that the theory is fact until its been proven in a 2019 RL. It would be great if this friend of yours could confirm if that is indeed fact vs theory.

So a year has gone by and, as Honda recommends, you've changed the oil before the MM prompted you. You reset the oil life display and made note of the upcoming maintenance items which you then proceed to perform. But once you perform these additional services, you won't be able to reset the codes for them because the MM did not actually prompt for them yet.
You can reset the codes the same way you reset the oil life indicator. If what zroger73's friend is saying is indeed fact, then you will be notified of the maintenance item when you reset the oil life indicator (after 1 year). Most of these maintenance items are not rock science. Based on time not mileage: Cabin/air filter every 1-2 years, inspect and change as needed. Differential fluid/transfer case/transmission fluid every 4-5 years based on driving. Inspect and change as needed. I find it hard to believe the service technicians are using a different tool to individually reset certain MM items. I could be wrong, but I would bet they are resetting it the same way it states in the manual.

Time as in years will likely dictate when I changed fluids. I hit 5 years the transmission and diff fluid is getting changed I don't care what the mileage is. Same for the brake fluid. And if my lab reports indicate I'm good at 18 months on my oil quality I'll change the damn oil once every 2 years.
I agree with this completely (although I would still change the oil once per year :) but that's me.

Or, just change the oil every year and leave the Maintenance Minder alone so that the oil life reaches 15% and let it prompt you for what is actually due based on actual driving conditions and distance traveled.
I would certainly not go against what the manufacture states in the manual (confirmed by Honda Corp). Your friend even confirmed himself to reset it if changing the oil yourself based on time. It's your vehicle and you can certainly do what you like, but you should be careful when stating facts about the MM which have not been proven. I have seen in a few posts you are saying not to reset the MM if changing your oil based on time. I think we can safety say, that is not recommended by Honda at this point.
 

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Excellent question.

Unlike brake fluid, engine oil is not hygroscopic so it doesn't "suck up" moisture from the atmosphere. And, it's true that engine oil doesn't spoil, per se, at least not before the vehicle rusts away.

Annual oil change recommendations appear to be based on the premise that low-mileage vehicles are driven for periods of time too short to evaporate any fuel or moisture that may have made its way into the crankcase.

As long as you drive the vehicle long enough to get it good and hot on occasion, I don't see any harm in letting the oil go longer than a year, but the manufacturer must issue a boilerplate recommendation based on the worst-case scenario. Otherwise, you'd end up with pages of different scenarios.

Some of GM's vehicles do include time as a factor in calculating engine oil life. If you don't start the engine in a Corvette or Colorado, for example, the oil life monitor will decrease from 100% to 0% over a year.
Thanks for that info - makes sense to me, realizing the crankcase is not sealed from the outside world, even if the engine isn't running much/taking in contaminants via fuel and air.

BTW, it won't be a problem for me....our machines get driven. Had a G1 for almost 9 years and this G2 for about 3 weeks - both so useful and also fun to drive. Had a guy this morning say "can I see that trunk!?", lol.
 
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