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Why not timing chains and hydraulic lifters? I might buy a Toyota next.
When is the last time you bought a vehicle? 1979? :)

Belts have almost equalled chains in reliability these days and are generally quieter.

Hydraulic lifters may not require adjustment, but that's one of few advantages.
 

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Here are some quotes from the maintenance section of the 2016 Pilot owner's manual:

• Adjust the valves during services A, B, 1, 2, or 3 if they are noisy.


● Replace timing belt and inspect water pump*4

Footnote: *4: If you drive regularly in very high temperatures (over 110°F, 43°C), in very low temperatures (under -20°F, -29°C), or towing a trailer, replace every 60,000 miles/100,000 km.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A modern engine should not have the expense of timing belt, idlers and tensioner replacement along with valve adjustment requiring taking the intake manifold off. Just the appropriate manifold and cam cover gaskets are around $175 from Majestic Honda.

Whether the valves are noisy or not is not a good indication for adjustment.
 

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A timing chain is noisier, has greater mass and friction (reduces power), and suffers from oil "windage" losses as well. It also will catastrophically destroy engine parts (in addition to any piston / valve interference issues) if and when it goes. In Honda's thinking, maximizing efficiency and minimizing sound levels out weigh the need for a belt replacement. . . .

I don't know the particulars of Honda's VTEC system but I doubt having hydraulic lifters fits into the package. Honda's system is pretty simple and reliable but yes you have to get to the valve train first.

Doing TB / valve adjust service every 100kish miles is definitely an expense but I think there is pretty solid reasoning on Honda's part for building their engine this way.
 

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A timing belt would not be so bad if dealer prices were not all over the place. Some are $400 some are $1400 if Honda got a handle on their dealers and listed a straight set price for a timing belt change it would not be as big a deal IMO. I should not get different prices at all three dealers I call, I should get the same damn price based on parts and labor.

While I may be the minority the timing belt swap on my RL is going to be the most expensive thing I have had to change on any of my last three vehicles with the previous two being GM. It is disappointing that at 100k I have to drop around 1k for a maintenance item while many of the competitor trucks do not need such expensive maintenance.

If chains are so bad why has honda moved to them in some engines? I was much relieved when I found the wife's civic has a chain and does not need a belt change. I was not looking forward to having to pay for two timing belt changes.
 

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I have not checked recently, but most of the "long term" ownership cost surveys and data out there rank the Honda very high and that has been my personal experience. Even with the TB change expenses, the long term costs on the Honda vehicles that require the TB change are quite low.

Yes I hate writing that check, but when amortized over 100,000 miles it is a pretty cheap maintenance item.
 

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Belts are quieter. No good reason to add to the relatively high wind & road noise. Of course those two might be enough to mask a noisier engine.
Chains do have disadvantages as stated. Another is that they can stretch over time, getting noisier but also affecting valve timing slightly. But usually those problems show up on very high mileage cars. 100K is a cakewalk for a chain.
 

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A timing belt would not be so bad if dealer prices were not all over the place. Some are $400 some are $1400 if Honda got a handle on their dealers and listed a straight set price for a timing belt change it would not be as big a deal IMO. I should not get different prices at all three dealers I call, I should get the same damn price based on parts and labor.

While I may be the minority the timing belt swap on my RL is going to be the most expensive thing I have had to change on any of my last three vehicles with the previous two being GM. It is disappointing that at 100k I have to drop around 1k for a maintenance item while many of the competitor trucks do not need such expensive maintenance.

If chains are so bad why has honda moved to them in some engines? I was much relieved when I found the wife's civic has a chain and does not need a belt change. I was not looking forward to having to pay for two timing belt changes.
What Civic or Honda Engine has a Chain, Just curious. My last 3, 1996 Del Sol, 1997 Civic, 2006 RL are all belts. I haven't checked what is required on the 2015 Fit yet as it still has less than 10k miles
 

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I have not checked recently, but most of the "long term" ownership cost surveys and data out there rank the Honda very high and that has been my personal experience. Even with the TB change expenses, the long term costs on the Honda vehicles that require the TB change are quite low.

Yes I hate writing that check, but when amortized over 100,000 miles it is a pretty cheap maintenance item.

Can't really disagree with you but still sucks IMO and has to be factored into long term ownership especially when the rest of the midsize class runs a chain that pretty much never needs to be changed.


What Civic or Honda Engine has a Chain, Just curious. My last 3, 1996 Del Sol, 1997 Civic, 2006 RL are all belts. I haven't checked what is required on the 2015 Fit yet as it still has less than 10k miles
8th and 9th gen civics have a chain.
 

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As has been the case for many years now, Honda/Acura 4-cylinder engines use chains while 6-cylinders use belts. For decades, most manufacturers have gone back and forth between belts and chains with each new engine with seemingly little rhyme or reason on the surface. The designers use whatever they feel is best suited for the application at the time. Each has advantages and disadvantages.
 

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A modern engine should not have the expense of timing belt, idlers and tensioner replacement along with valve adjustment requiring taking the intake manifold off...
A truly modern IC engine would not have a timing belt, or a timing chain, or camshafts. ;)
 

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What Civic or Honda Engine has a Chain, Just curious. My last 3, 1996 Del Sol, 1997 Civic, 2006 RL are all belts. I haven't checked what is required on the 2015 Fit yet as it still has less than 10k miles
As has been the case for many years now, Honda/Acura 4-cylinder engines use chains while 6-cylinders use belts. For decades, most manufacturers have gone back and forth between belts and chains with each new engine with seemingly little rhyme or reason on the surface. The designers use whatever they feel is best suited for the application at the time. Each has advantages and disadvantages.
Honda S2000: Chain! I know this is in a whole different class, but it is a 4 cylinder.
 

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Thanks Jonb, I hadn't heard that or read it, then again I don't own that new of a Civic.

But, with that info, I now know my Fit has a Chain too, Checked both "FIT Forums"
 

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What Civic or Honda Engine has a Chain, Just curious. My last 3, 1996 Del Sol, 1997 Civic, 2006 RL are all belts. I haven't checked what is required on the 2015 Fit yet as it still has less than 10k miles
My 2006 Acura TSX 2.4L (Honda engine) had a chain. My buddie's 2009 CRV 2.4L has a chain. When I was looking at Crosstours, I discovered that the 4 cyl model uses a chain, while the V6-a belt.
 
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