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I'm approaching 5,000 miles on my 2021 sport. Apparently the oil won't need changed until my truck notified me. However I don't mind doing it at a 5,000 mile interval. What is everyone's thoughts on this?
Bought my 2020 during the pandemic's early stages. As such, only put 4600 miles on it mostly city (4300 miles) in one year. So I changed out the factory oil at that time, although there was 30% oil life left. Another reason is that it went through almost one quart during that time, so rather than add, I changed it out.

Why 5k miles? The old school thing was 3k miles. Oil tech has come a long way. Changing earlier than necessary is just a waste.
Agree mostly, unless you go one year and only put on 4600 like I did. Then change it.
 

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Why I say test your oil if you really care,..... with a high quality oil analysis service instead of guessing, that stops the oil threads dead in their opinionated tracks. I think folks like to BS and guess because they don't trust science. Especially if it costs them more than $25 to confirm.....LOL
At $25 for the test, might as well just change the oil and not worry about it! ;)

I think I've read some of your posts with suggested sources but haven't taken the time to search out your posts to follow up.

I

Ha ha... there are a million things I could day and correct, inform, enlighten, but I cannot spare the time. BTW million things is metaphor.
I never heard Cattle hat phrase...hillbilly?
Okay, I understand nothing is accurate here...just common hear say...
I wrote sloppy as a time thing..and yes I wonder why I took any time. But if you think...I just abruptly Yelled out a few facts in a way that brought out others ignorance and the children.
No disrespect intended, but if you are a scientist as proclaimed, you seem remarkably close minded to the evidence presented here that challenges your preconceived ideas.

Why don't you review the info presented, then come back with an informed rebuttal? That would seem the logical way to approach the issue. As it stands, you just seem unable/unwilling to let go of your preconceived ideas.
 

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We're the ones providing evidence in the form of research papers written by Honda engineers supported by the results of real-world oil analyses and owner reports.

You're the one attempting to counter this evidence with unsubstantiated claims.

Either provide evidence or move on.
I read many misguided advisements on this site. I said I got 30 plus mpg and many argued this was impossible lol etc. Many things stated that requires confirmation more urgently than my statements on the MM. BTW I got 29 mpg in stop and go traffic yesterday !!! 3,000 miles on Ridgeline. Anyway, I spend 8 years in University (including graduate) I dont think I am too far off ..... It has to be my writing because anyone should know the MM limitations or structure. For me to provide my work data you must PAY, just like you pay to see doctor, or talk to an attorney. Anyway here is a copy and paste of 5 minute internet search on the oil monitor.... Remember they are Logic Circuits, very good at logging engine hours idle hours...etc THEY are simple because they must be... otherwise updates and all sorts of nonsense would be a pain. so on ....



Not long ago, most people changed oil every 3,000 miles (4,800 km). No matter what. Well, except AMSOIL users who took advantage of the 25,000-mile (40,200-km)/1-year drain interval of our top-tier synthetic oil. Then oil life monitors (OLM) came along and changed the game.

While first-generation oil life monitors were simple, mileage-based systems that prescribed fixed oil-change intervals regardless of operating conditions, today’s systems are far more sophisticated. They monitor several conditions known to reduce oil life, enter those values into an algorithm and return the oil-life percentage you see on your vehicle’s display.

Today, it’s common for an OLM in a vehicle driven mostly under normal service to recommend an oil change after 10,000 miles (16,000 km) or more. They’ve prevented the waste of countless quarts of perfectly good oil over the years.


Many of today’s original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) routinely recommended oil change intervals of 5,000 to 8,000 miles and beyond. Combining these advances in technology with an OLM helps to remove some of the guesswork and concerns that a driver was previously faced with when it comes to a required oil change.

Even today’s best engine oil has a fixed or limited lifetime and will need to be replaced or maintained periodically to ensure the safety, longevity and reliable performance that customers demand from their vehicles. Unfortunately, it seems that maintaining a vehicle isn’t something that is commonly a top priority for today’s busy motoring public.

Increasing the oil change service interval is something drivers want. It reduces vehicle down-time and decreases the operating costs, something the manufacturer can promote about their vehicle line. It also prevents the draining of oil that has not reached the end of its service life.

Method #1: Measuring the distance

This is the most basic form of OLM. This OLM merely keeps track of the distance driven since the last oil change. When the predetermined distance is reached a warning light or message reminder is illuminated warning the driver that an oil change is due. Manufacturers such as Honda, Toyota and Hyundai use this system.

The distance-measuring OLM does not take any driving factors into consideration. Short trips, long highway operation, towing, weather conditions and other factor that affect oil life are not taken into consideration with this system.

This may mean that the distance-style OLM light may not be effective at predicting the actual wear conditions of the oil in both a negative and positive way.

Lightly driven vehicles may get their oil changed far too often and heavy, hard, hot-driven vehicles towing a trailer may not get the oil change that is needed soon enough.

It’s because of this lack of sophistication that this style of OLM relies heavily on the vehicle operator to ensure that the oil level is maintained at the correct level and manufacturer recommended oil was installed and, most importantly, that the vehicle operator check the suggested service intervals in the owner’s manual for their driving conditions.

Method #2: Tracking vehicle operating conditions

This style of OLM is software-based and uses complex math or algorithms to better predict when the engine oil will need to be changed. This system is continually tracking how the vehicle is being operated and under what conditions.

General Motors (GM) started using this type of OLM (GM calls it GM Oil-Life System, or GMOLS) back in 1998 and based the need for an oil change heavily on the number of engine revolutions and operating temperature.

GM studied the average vehicle driving conditions and decided on four classifications: normal flowing highway, high temperature/high load situations, city driving/short trips and cold starts and extreme short trips.

GM’s research showed that engine oil degrades primarily related to oil temperature. In the first three operational categories, oil wear was related to operating temperature and that extreme short trips, the final operating category, generated enough water and oil contaminates to cause the oil to degrade (temperature related: lower oil temperature = high contamination).

An inferior engine oil may reach the end of its life, thermally breaking down, oxidizing, forming engine deposits and sludge, all while the OLM indicates substantial remaining life.

This engine oil degradation can accelerate engine wear, reduce performance and reduce engine durability and longevity. Another major factor is driving conditions — short trips, stop-and-go, dusty, extreme hot or cold and towing situations.

Mileage-based systems estimate the life of the oil based on a preset mileage recommendation that can range from 5,000 to 7,500 miles. It can be an effective reminder for some owners, but it does not take into account severe-duty operation or a customer who only makes short trips.

Calculation-based or intelligent oil life monitors use multiple inputs to determine the health of the oil. GM’s first Oil Life Monitor (OLM) that used more than just mileage to determine the interval appeared in 2007. Chrysler was not far behind in 2008. Ford had an intelligent system on most vehicles starting in 2011.

Systems from GM, Ford and Chrysler are basing the oil change interval on actual data from the vehicle. At the heart of the equation is still mileage, revolutions and hours of operation. But, these systems also log oil and coolant temperatures to see if the engine has had time to burn off condensates in the oil. Some systems also use calendars to determine if it is time to change the oil. If the date is not set in the driver information center, the oil life monitor might not work.



service change engine oil soon
What does an oil life monitor track?
Honestly, oil-life monitor is a poor description for these systems. A better name is oil life estimator. They do not monitor any direct physical or chemical property of oil; they only accumulate data from the vehicle’s computer and predict how your driving habits and operating conditions have affected the oil’s viscosity, total base number (a measure of remaining detergency), oxidation level and other factors.

Since the OLM can’t measure these key properties like a chemist in a lab would measure them, how can it know when the oil has, for example, only 10 percent life remaining? It can’t – it simply estimates oil life based on an algorithm.
 

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You copied the entire article except for the conclusion which happens to disagree with your opinion. I think we’re being trolled.


Can we trust an OLM?

Yes, today’s OLM can be trusted, when they are used in conjunction with an engine oil that meets or exceeds the manufacturer’s recommendations. The OEMs have developed and validated their OLM algorithms in conjunction with analytical oil tests and research.

This research ensures that even at the maximum drain interval, the engine oil will continue to meet all functional requirements.

Extended oil change intervals have benefits valuable to the customer; less frequent service requirements, less down time, reduced operating costs and more environmentally friendly operation due to less waste oil and superior filters.

The use of an oil condition sensor and oil level sensor has eliminated the need for a dipstick on some vehicles, something that symbolizes the fact that fewer people are opening their hoods to inspect the engine’s oil level.

The extended oil service interval is a fact of life, and we will likely see the intervals grow longer. As modern engines rely on engine oil technology to do more, the price if an oil change will increase.

Engine oil and its additives are continually improving, as are engine technology, oil filtration and engine design. The OLM will evolve as well, taking these and other factors into consideration as it decides how the engine oil degrades.

Many manufacturers have also increased the amount of oil in the engine to compensate for longer service intervals. As an example, a 2018 5.3 V8 Chevrolet Silverado now holds 8 quarts of 0W20, an increase from the 6 quarts a 2014 model held. But all OLM systems, from the simple distance counter to the complex oil condition system, are dependent on the proper manufacturer-specific engine oil being installed during an oil change and that the correct oil level is maintained throughout the service interval. If neither of these requirements is met, the OLM system can’t function as planned.”
 

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I read many misguided advisements on this site.
Me, too - and it seems like I've seen more of them from you in the last month than all the others in the last 15 years. :)

Anyway, I spend 8 years in University (including graduate) I dont think I am too far off ..... It has to be my writing because anyone should know the MM limitations or structure.
What university did you graduate from? What are your credentials? Were English classes part of your curriculum?

For me to provide my work data you must PAY, just like you pay to see doctor, or talk to an attorney.
Why would I pay for bad advice when good advice is free?

Anyway here is a copy and paste of 5 minute internet search on the oil monitor...
Did it really take that long? I haven't spent that much time searching for articles since I was in elementary school and had to flip through index cards in the library card catalog system before we had computers.
 

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At $25 for the test, might as well just change the oil and not worry about it! ;)

I think I've read some of your posts with suggested sources but haven't taken the time to search out your posts to follow up.
Understand your logic and thats why real science hasn't made it to the consumer in a broad based way.

Remember changing oil can mask problems that could be corrected by oil analysis ID'ng an issue.

My tack on IC engine oil analysis was mostly to measure combustion efficiencies and engine condition. The extension or optimized of oil drains is something the marketers of boutique oils had to do to justify higher cost, lower economies of scale custom formulated engine oils or OEM's trying to sell "low/no maintenance" new cars.

I just received my third oil analysis of our 2020 RL Sport and it confirmed the air filter change I made @ 6787 miles to optimize the air flow vs making the ECM counter the detected lean from lower air flow.

It dropped my fuels dilution from 2.7% on test 2 @3150 miles to 2% @ 5445 miles. Saving 0.7% fuels riding in the engine oil over that interval.

The Cenex Maxtron 0w20 testing is done and changed oil @ 8844 miles to Shell Rotella 0w20 Truck and SUV formula.

I get great mpg ( did anyone see the 87.8 mpg on display?) but like Roger said I am always driving down hill.... :ROFLMAO:

On that run I achieved 29 mpg, up hill and 87.8 mpg, down hill, average 58.4 mpg, drop off 10% for max ECM fluff and I still got 52.56 mpg for that circuit. The efficiencies of the unit are such I get over the front end being bent by snow and ice because front ground clearance here in mountains of CO sux......:D
 

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Me, too - and it seems like I've seen more of them from you in the last month than all the others in the last 15 years. :)



What university did you graduate from? What are your credentials? Were English classes part of your curriculum?



Why would I pay for bad advice when good advice is free?



Did it really take that long? I haven't spent that much time searching for articles since I was in elementary school and had to flip through index cards in the library card catalog system before we had computers.
Why so rude? BTW chips run like clocks, cycle. So with the MM it has to only, I call it log, log higher than normal temps so on. So again, what must have made you mad in the start I say again.

Hmmm, I ended up with A in English, I impressed the Teacher by explaining Einstein's theories in manner a child could understand. Also, using a research paper I wrote I argued and showed Einstein was mildly Autistic. All sorts.... I only needed to take two English classes. But research papers and for fun I took Philosophy which weighted heavy on writing. I aced all.... my under graduate majors were Mathematics and Physics. Even for undergrad graduation in physics required models much more complex than MM. I also got a degree in electronics the exact stuff the MM uses.
I really did not wish to take time to write nicely, but really should not had mattered because I actually gave one sentence comment. For example, it is physically impossible for the MM to know the actual state of the oil. And MM is not god...
What I could have added was: estimates may be good.
However, I would not blindly follow the MM.....

Viscosity is an area of interest in physics and.....
Well I know new oil effects mpg lowers it, High mileage oil........

Now physics of the oil, mpg, temperature, carbon, etc is what could be interesting if ppl want to dig into oil changes :) Engineering is applied Physics; using what physicists publish. Love deep sh*t.
 

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Welp! Those Einstein comments sealed the deal for me. I’m sure everyone clapped after that presentation too.

You keep repeating the old ragged comment “don’t blindly follow the MM”…my dude, no one has said that ever on this forum. Not even proponents of the MM itself. You’ll more quickly find that being said about miles based regular oil changes vs the MM. You’re arguing a point from an alternate dimension.

I’m turning off my notifications for this thread now lol.
 
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Oil analysis is much better than the Maintenance Minder, which in turn is much better than fixed oil change intervals.

I'd venture the Maintenance Minder is better than 99.999% of people's gut feelings on when they should change the oil.

I think that's the real argument here. Unless you're going to have your oil analyzed by a professional lab, you are much better off following the Maintenance Minder. Go ahead and change it early on the break-in I'd that makes you feel better, but second-guessing the MM outside of the time interval is a fool's errand.
 

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Why so rude? BTW chips run like clocks, cycle. So with the MM it has to only, I call it log, log higher than normal temps so on. So again, what must have made you mad in the start I say again.
I know how the maintenance minder works because, unlike you, I've read the information that you either refuse or are too inept to read.

Hmmm, I ended up with A in English...
That's unbelievable given all the grammatical, punctuation, and capitalization errors in your posts. Quite frankly, they are painful to read. I feel like every one I read drags my IQ down a few points. :)

Until you provide valid evidence for your claims and speak intelligently on this subject, you have absolutely zero credibility here.
 

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Give it up folks…
B60D979F-FEEA-41A1-8B75-E3731667E35A.png
 

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Welp! Those Einstein comments sealed the deal for me. I’m sure everyone clapped after that presentation too.

You keep repeating the old ragged comment “don’t blindly follow the MM”…my dude, no one has said that ever on this forum. Not even proponents of the MM itself. You’ll more quickly find that being said about miles based regular oil changes vs the MM. You’re arguing a point from an alternate dimension.

I’m turning off my notifications for this thread now lol.
Lol I was being attacked... I am just trying to be a gentleman and with respect break through the ignorance pointing out they are insulting me and harming this site for no cause. Long ago, when I said the MM is time based or clock based I was referring to how chips work, not actual counting time. So it is obvious ppl have no clue.
I would not blame you for turning off notification!!

The most negative thing I said (since ppl do not even know squat) was if Honda is telling you the MM knows what is physically going on in the oil, they are selling you a lie. (Physically impossible <> physical state....)


There are no "alternative" dimensions.


BTW I am at retirement age I am not a dude :)


You haven't followed the thread, therefore. Vendetta is profound, never ran into this before on internet, and only once in life by a guy named Ed. Dumb as a door nail, and too stupid to realize it.
Who knows if I wrote in a thread that was years old... that got response 14 and 20 mpg is max, "Just follow the MM" which suggests Blind follow.
 

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You haven't followed the thread, therefore. Vendetta is profound, never ran into this before on internet, and only once in life by a guy named Ed. Dumb as a door nail, and too stupid to realize it.
Who knows if I wrote in a thread that was years old... that got response 14 and 20 mpg is max, "Just follow the MM" which suggests Blind follow.
In a nutshell, what are you recommending to do? If you don't go by the MM, what should you go by?
 

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Me, too - and it seems like I've seen more of them from you in the last month than all the others in the last 15 years. :)



What university did you graduate from? What are your credentials? Were English classes part of your curriculum?



Why would I pay for bad advice when good advice is free?



Did it really take that long? I haven't spent that much time searching for articles since I was in elementary school and had to flip through index cards in the library card catalog system before we had computers.
LMAO.............................!
 

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However, I would not blindly follow the MM.....
Ok, so what WOULD you use to decide when to change your oil? Your GUESS as to the state of the oil?



that got response 14 and 20 mpg is max, "Just follow the MM" which suggests Blind follow.
You keep mentioning MPG, which this thread is NOT about, and no one here has said a word about MPG except you. It is not germane to the discussion.
 

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In a nutshell, what are you recommending to do? If you don't go by the MM, what should you go by?
Good question. I simply would not allow the miles to go up to 10k.... Any vehicle I drive, i keep myself informed of the conditions. I changed oil at 5k. New vehicles I change at 1k first time simply because it makes me feel better. (I suppose I question quality control) If I notice gas usage going up and with other conditions I drove under I will change oil sooner. ( That is, heat leads to dirt... carbon...oxidation...increases viscosity and lower mpg and potential degradation towards the motor.)
One thing I watch is mpg.
I watch the MM too.
It may not be conventional but I do not like heavy black oil.
I follow or watch the MM, but I change oil when I decide. I already changed oil (non honda eg 2016 vehical) at 50 or 45 percent when engine ran hard and percent precipitously dropped.
In a nutshell, what are you recommending to do? If you don't go by the MM, what should you go by?
I wrote a reply to your good question; however I decided not to post ... wife needed me.
I watch the MM. I do not like black oil. As oil oxidizes and carbonized the MPG lowers due to viscosity increase. So I watch my MPG which can be effected/affected by oil. I watch MM, I look at the oil, I consider driving conditions.
I change oil at all different times and miles depending on how I drive.
Prior post I did not send was more detailed.
 
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