Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums banner
21 - 40 of 45 Posts

·
Super Moderator
2021 Radiant Red RTL
Joined
·
7,888 Posts
Then I’m either misinformed or misunderstood the maintenance minder algorithm. Doesn’t the MM algorithm account for different driving styles and conditions?
It might, but I drive short distances often, and climb mountains (11K feet) and the maintenance minder still says I am at 20% after 12 months and 5K miles. I definitely would classify the mileage on my RL as severe. The only condition I don't qualify for on this list is driving on muddy, or dusty roads. I do drive on de-iced roads.

"Follow the Severe Maintenance Schedule if you drive your vehicle MAINLY under one or more of the following conditions: Driving less than 5 miles (8 km) per trip or, in freezing temperatures, driving less than 10 miles (16 km) per trip. Driving in extremely hot [over 90° F (32°C)] conditions. Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving. Trailer towing, driving with a roof rack carrier, or driving in mountainous conditions. Driving on muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads."
 

·
Registered
2019 RTL
Joined
·
1,308 Posts
Then I’m either misinformed or misunderstood the maintenance minder algorithm. Doesn’t the MM algorithm account for different driving styles and conditions?
I think Honda likes to portray the MM as more intelligent than it actually is. It is essentially a miles-based system and doesn't account for the wide range of possible usage. For example, I doubt the ATF code will trigger at significantly different miles whether you're a short distance suburban driver in the PNW, versus a long range 5000lb trailer puller in AZ mountains.
 

·
Premium Member
2019 RTL awd, MSM
Joined
·
6,098 Posts
I think Honda likes to portray the MM as more intelligent than it actually is. It is essentially a miles-based system and doesn't account for the wide range of possible usage. For example, I doubt the ATF code will trigger at significantly different miles whether you're a short distance suburban driver in the PNW, versus a long range 5000lb trailer puller in AZ mountains.
Well, it's a little more involved than that. See post #24 here, from @zroger73:

 

·
Registered
2019 RTL
Joined
·
1,308 Posts
Well, it's a littleore involved than that. See post #24 here, from @zroger73:

I didn't say it only takes into account miles traveled, I said it is essentially a miles-based system. Ask owners when their first rear differential fluid change was indicated, or their first ATF change and you'll find there is not a great spread of miles. E.g. around 15K for rear diff and around 45K for ATF - regardless of whether they live in a hot climate, cold climate, hilly area, flat area and regardless of whether they tow. carry large loads in their beds/cabin, or just use it for a daily commute.
 

·
Premium Member
2019 RTL awd, MSM
Joined
·
6,098 Posts
I didn't say it only takes into account miles traveled, I said it is essentially a miles-based system. Ask owners when their first rear differential fluid change was indicated, or their first ATF change and you'll find there is not a great spread of miles. E.g. around 15K for rear diff and around 45K for ATF - regardless of whether they live in a hot climate, cold climate, hilly area, flat area and regardless of whether they tow. carry large loads in their beds/cabin, or just use it for a daily commute.
I never said that you said "only".

I was simply pointing out that the MM algorithm may be a little more involved than what you seem to have implied.

The algorithm uses coolant temp, intake air temp, intake air flow, engine speed, and vehicle speed to calculate oil life. I'm not sure it uses mileage at all.

One may surmise that engine speed and vehicle speed can lead to similar mileage vehicles among a sample size.

My first MM went off a little over 5k miles, and I expect the second one (including differential change) to occur around 11k miles. Most of my driving is shorter trips, some in subzero temps and some around 100°F temps, but no mountains or towing.

I do plan to change the AT fluid more often, though I doubt it will matter much in my case.
 

·
Premium Member
2022 WBE in Southern Florida
Joined
·
1,750 Posts
I have a 2021 Canadian RL. I just had the first oil change done at about 10 months and 9,000 miles. The oil life was at 20%, but it was time to remove the snow tires, so I wanted to get it all done at once. Since many of the 9,000 miles were done on a rough, muddy road to the nearest ski area, I asked for the B1 service as well, to include a new oil filter and a thorough brake/undercarriage inspection and cleaning. It turns out the local Honda dealership replaces the filter with every oil change even though the A service doesn't call for it. They also only use synthetic oil, even though the manual does not specifically require it. (But then, does anybody even make 0W-20 mineral oil?) I approve of both practices.

I reset the MM. Since the engine is now broken in and I know it has a fresh filter, I'll take it to 15% next time around. We'll see what displays!
Synthetic oil is the ONLY oil available for our trucks.
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 Ridgeline RTS in Billet Silver Metallic
Joined
·
23,966 Posts
I suspect the MM system is designed for the greater than 50% of users who fit the normal service category on the bell curve. But the users on either end of the bell curve who either drive very little or drive in severe service conditions are outside the bell curve and have to interpolate from the OM as best they can between annual oil changes and only resetting the MM when the next service is due... or in the case of severe service conditions... well I guess you just reset the MM when those services are performed?

I find the MM a good attempt but it still leaves much undefined and open to question/interpretation and so I've adopted a modified MM approach to my maintenance on both my 08 ridgeline (127k+) and 06 pilot (180k+) which seems to serve me well. 🤷‍♂️
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Just as a reminder: Resetting the MM before the oil life reaches 15% resets only the oil life. The only time other codes are reset when resetting the MM is when they are displayed when the oil life reaches 15%.

So, let's say you drive 5,000 miles per year and you change your oil every year and reset the MM before the oil life reaches 15%. If you keep doing that perpetually, you'll miss code 6 at around 15,000 miles for the first rear differential oil change and all other maintenance codes because you'll never see them. Once you begin driving the vehicle more (or you sell it to someone else who does), the next time the oil life reaches 15%, all those codes that have been "suppressed" will appear.

To put it another way, a 5,000-mile/year driver who constantly resets his MM every year before the oil life reaches 15% for 105,000 miles will never see ANY maintenance codes. But, let's say I buy the vehicle used and I drive 15,000 miles/year - the first time the oil life does reach 15%, I'll see every code that would have displayed over those 105,000 miles (probably A/B123456!). :)
This is one of the dumbest things I ever read. Dump on Honda not writer. There should be a book where mechanical maintenance schedule noted. I have been changing oil (free) at around 6k miles. Looks like 15% is reached at 10k miles for at least average driving. Honda grease monkeys logically reset MM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
605 Posts
It's true that the manual says to change the oil once a year if you have low miles, but it doesn't say why. I'd like to know why. I think they assume you've made a lot of short trips, but I'm retired and with the pandemic I haven't traveled so about every 2-3 weeks I drive the truck around 40-50 miles. No short trips and the engine gets well-warmed up when I do drive it. I'm not convinced I need to change the oil and filter once per year. I know in theory the oil can degrade from age and moisture, but it sure looked and felt clean last time I changed it. I've searched and haven't found any testing results to show that oil really needs to be changed every year under these circumstances. I still have the oil I drained so maybe I can find time to send it in for a test.
 

·
Registered
2017 Ridgeline RTS AWD, White Diamond Pearl
Joined
·
88 Posts
It's true that the manual says to change the oil once a year if you have low miles, but it doesn't say why. I'd like to know why. I think they assume you've made a lot of short trips, but I'm retired and with the pandemic I haven't traveled so about every 2-3 weeks I drive the truck around 40-50 miles. No short trips and the engine gets well-warmed up when I do drive it. I'm not convinced I need to change the oil and filter once per year. I know in theory the oil can degrade from age and moisture, but it sure looked and felt clean last time I changed it. I've searched and haven't found any testing results to show that oil really needs to be changed every year under these circumstances. I still have the oil I drained so maybe I can find time to send it in for a test.
I’m with you. I’d also like to know the reason for annual recommended oil changes. The only reason I can come up with is that the earth completed exactly one whole orbit around the sun, which seems like a conveniently made up interval. Given how many other variables should come into play affecting oil life, I am unconvinced that the one orbit of a particular planet is a good enough reason, thus I ignore the annual change interval advice. I have never experienced any problems as a result of doing longer change intervals on low usage engines.

Relevant variables would seem to be vehicle storage practices, local storage climate and climate where you drive, type, duration, and frequency of use, etc, but not so much earth’s orbit.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
22,414 Posts
Great. First, there were complaints that the Maintenance Minder didn't account for time. When that functionality gets added to the Ridgeline like other models, there will be complaints that it will prompt for an oil change after a year. :)

Some days, I just can't people. :)
 

·
Registered
2017 Ridgeline RTS AWD, White Diamond Pearl
Joined
·
88 Posts
Great. First, there were complaints that the Maintenance Minder didn't account for time. When that functionality gets added to the Ridgeline like other models, there will be complaints that it will prompt an oil change after a year. :)

Some days, I just can't people. :)
The complaint is not whether or not the maintenance minder prompts for annual oil changes, rather my complaint is that there doesn’t seem an explanation or to be distinct logic behind why one exact year was chosen as maximum oil life for all users and all situations. If the maintenance minder was smart, that interval would vary and not be based on a calendar.
 

·
Premium Member
2019 RTL awd, MSM
Joined
·
6,098 Posts
The complaint is not whether or not the maintenance minder prompts for annual oil changes, rather my complaint is that there doesn’t seem an explanation or to be distinct logic behind why one exact year was chosen as maximum oil life for all users and all situations. If the maintenance minder was smart, that interval would vary and not be based on a calendar.
Kinda like why is the tow limit 5000lbs, and not 5040lbs?

It's a good easy round number to remember. And provides Honda a hard cutoff date for denying warranty claims, if that were ever to occur.
 

·
Registered
2017 Ridgeline RTS AWD, White Diamond Pearl
Joined
·
88 Posts
Kinda like why is the tow limit 5000lbs, and not 5040lbs?

It's a good easy round number to remember. And provides Honda a hard cutoff date for denying warranty claims, if that were ever to occur.
I‘m guessing you are right, that a one year oil change interval is simply an easy to remember interval, and has little to no technical basis. But doesn’t that type of logic or basis go against the concept of an advanced, intelligent maintenance minder? If that’s the case, I’d rather just go back to mileage based schedules printed in the owner’s manual.
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 Ridgeline RTS in Billet Silver Metallic
Joined
·
23,966 Posts
It's true that the manual says to change the oil once a year if you have low miles, but it doesn't say why. I'd like to know why. I think they assume you've made a lot of short trips, but I'm retired and with the pandemic I haven't traveled so about every 2-3 weeks I drive the truck around 40-50 miles. No short trips and the engine gets well-warmed up when I do drive it. I'm not convinced I need to change the oil and filter once per year. I know in theory the oil can degrade from age and moisture, but it sure looked and felt clean last time I changed it. I've searched and haven't found any testing results to show that oil really needs to be changed every year under these circumstances. I still have the oil I drained so maybe I can find time to send it in for a test.
I don't think Honda will ever tell us their reasoning behind the annual oil change. But I suspect your suppositions are accurate. I'm also a low mileage driver these days and used to do the annual oil change regardless. I sampled my oil the last change and found everything well within spec even though well past the annual change schedule but with low miles, so for my 2008/2006 Honda vehicles, I'll only do the oil change when I hit 0% on the MM... or a few miles beyond.

If my vehicles were still under warranty, I'd do the annual change regardless, and then not reset the MM at the interim change.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tmz and BehindBars

·
Premium Member
2019 RTL awd, MSM
Joined
·
6,098 Posts
There is probably some historic and cultural perspective there, also. Perhaps there is a petroleum standard of sorts that specifies typical lifespan of various oils, and engine manufacturers may have unofficially adopted their own standard based on averages (of combined organic and synthetic oils).

Add in worst-case scenarios (severe-duty requirements) and the one-year change is probably a conservative, easy-to-remember standard.

I suspect your engine/oil would be just fine going two years between oil changes; however, should you have any engine issues, that one-year standard is an easy call-out for Honda (or other mfrs) to deny warranty claims. Probably best to just bite the bullet until your warranty expires.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
605 Posts
Of course, it's not just Honda that specifies annual oil changes at minimum - that's universal across most, if not all automakers.
I know, but what is the basis for that recommendation? Maybe most manufacturers say it because others say it. I've researched and most answers talk about short trips and not running the engine warm enough for long enough to burn off the moisture. But that isn't my situation. Some answers talk about oil and additive degradation over time. But none mention any testing or specific facts to support a one-year oil life. And the fact that the recommendation is specifically one year makes it seem like just a guess. The cost isn't really important to me, but time to change it or get it changed, and extra environmental damage from changing too frequently, is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
OK, I have a couple of questions. First some info: 2021 RL Sport w/11,000 miles. I don't tow a trailer, don't drive in sub-zero temps or climb mountains. No heavy loads. Most trips are at least 15-20 miles or more so the truck is almost always up to operating temps for a good while. No high performance driving. Summers here are often in the mid 90's. I want to keep this truck trouble free FOREVER! I plan to change the rear diff fluid at about 15 k miles. When do I need to change the front diff fluid? With the 9 speed when should I change the transmission fluid? I believe in preventive maintenance.
 

·
Registered
2017 Ridgeline RTS AWD, White Diamond Pearl
Joined
·
88 Posts
OK, I have a couple of questions. First some info: 2021 RL Sport w/11,000 miles. I don't tow a trailer, don't drive in sub-zero temps or climb mountains. No heavy loads. Most trips are at least 15-20 miles or more so the truck is almost always up to operating temps for a good while. No high performance driving. Summers here are often in the mid 90's. I want to keep this truck trouble free FOREVER! I plan to change the rear diff fluid at about 15 k miles. When do I need to change the front diff fluid? With the 9 speed when should I change the transmission fluid? I believe in preventive maintenance.
You’re probably trying to overthink it. Just follow the Maintenance Minder and Honda’s recommendations for fluid changes.

This thread is primarily about annual oil change necessity on low usage Ridgelines. Since you just have general maintenance questions regarding multiple fluids, I suggest you start a new thread on that topic.
 
21 - 40 of 45 Posts
Top