[fraugher]

Interesting read from today thanks to poster at TOV, not sure if this touches into some of the early production / QC concerns raised by Joe:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150820/OEM01/150829985/honda-goes-prototype-free-to-build-redesigned-pilot

"Honda is using its NPD [no prototype development] process now for the redesigned Ridgeline pickup that is expected to arrive next year."

 

[fraugher]

And Top Safety Pick, credited to the design process:

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2015/08/20/2016-honda-pilot-assembly-alabama-iihs-safety-rating/32073603/

 

[Outahere]

1 bad omen, and 1 good omen.

"...Other car manufacturers have also been able to reduce or eliminate physical prototypes from the development process. Toyota tried that in the last decade as part of a push to accelerate new-model launches. But after it was beset with quality problems, the company decided to rely less on simulated prototyping and would resume building physical test vehicles to eliminate design or manufacturing glitches…"

 

[zroger73]

If there are no Ridgeline prototypes, then what are we seeing in spy pics?

 

[fraugher]

If there are no Ridgeline prototypes, then what are we seeing in spy pics?

Presumably its off the assembly line.

 

[zroger73]

Come on, Joe. Help us out here. It is my understanding that Honda has or will soon run a batch of "pre-production" Ridglines. However, based on that understanding and the claim that Honda didn't build any physical prototypes, how could we have seen at least two different next-generation Ridgelines running around already?

 

[regularmember]

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/08/2016-honda-pilot-developed-without-prototypes.html

That article explains it better - no prototype TOOLING was developed - they just went straight from the computer to the production tooling. I guess they used 3D printing as well to quickly mock-up parts and pieces to check fit. There is a bit in there about a clear dashboard to help look at wire routing which is kind of neat.

So the pre-production Ridgelines running around are presumably being built right on the line in Alabama - same with the pre-production Pilots we saw running around. And those check for issues. The new Pilot is having some issues but I don't know if they can be traced to using this process or simply not putting enough time/money into it or not building them to proper specs in the factory or some combination of all three.

 

[Dnick]

Explanations get lost in semantics; and terminologies/definitions can differ from company to company. Prototypes, development models, pre-production models, proof-of-design or proof of concept models..... lots of way to describe things that only mean what they mean for that particular team/company/industry.
So without a product specific glossary, it can get confusing.

 

[eurban]

No HAND BUILT prototypes.

 

[25 Year Honda Owner]

From the Lincoln, AL plant's website. This should tell us something!!
Due to production confidentiality, Honda Manufacturing of Alabama will be closed for tours through May 2016. Thank you for your patience.

 

[fraugher]

From the Lincoln, AL plant's website. This should tell us something!!
Due to production confidentiality, Honda Manufacturing of Alabama will be closed for tours through May 2016. Thank you for your patience.

They closed plant tours in 2008 for the Pilot as well. Can only assume this has everything to do with the Odyssey and not the RL (remember Joe has more or less suggested that the RL has been in the bag for a while, and is just waiting for the proper production moment, it's hard to imagine the RL is getting much attention at all).

 

[fraugher]

As to the Odyssey, Edmunds speculates an AWD variant (which generally would have made me happy in the past), but cannot see why they would do this with the Pilot being more Odyish than ever, except if it was just too easy to do given the platform. With the Pilot lowered, an even lower Odyssey might have trouble packaging a transaxle?

On the other hand, the Ody could be another post-Ito shot at a real innovation, obviously it will already get most of the Pilot stuff, but something else will be needed to vault it over the competition, probably in the seating area.

 

[Dnick]

As to the Odyssey, Edmunds speculates an AWD variant (which generally would have made me happy in the past), but cannot see why they would do this with the Pilot being more Odyish than ever, except if it was just too easy to do given the platform. With the Pilot lowered, an even lower Odyssey might have trouble packaging a transaxle?

On the other hand, the Ody could be another post-Ito shot at a real innovation, obviously it will already get most of the Pilot stuff, but something else will be needed to vault it over the competition, probably in the seating area.

Given the Oddy is most definitely expected to be used "on-pavement", this would provide a great security blanket to folks in snow-covered areas, worried more about stability on plowed roads than about ground clearance. Where the Pilot can provide more utility/versatility for getting off the pavement or into unplowed areas.

 

[csimo]

If there are no Ridgeline prototypes, then what are we seeing in spy pics?

Those are not prototypes. They are pre-production units built at Lincoln.

 

[csimo]

Come on, Joe. Help us out here. It is my understanding that Honda has or will soon run a batch of "pre-production" Ridglines. However, based on that understanding and the claim that Honda didn't build any physical prototypes, how could we have seen at least two different next-generation Ridgelines running around already?

All are built at Lincoln and are not prototypes, but rather pre-production units. There are three levels of pre-production units. The final being pre-mass-production units.

 

[fraugher]

Not sure when these numbers came out, but Edmunds now has True Cost to Own data on the 2016 Pilot, a good indication where this will fall for the Ridgeline. In general, it looks similar to the older Pilot, except with lower fuel expenditure. Edmunds is not showing an insurance discount for Honda Sensing but I realized a 15% discount between an Outback with Eyesight and without.

Edmunds showing elevated expenses for non-repair Maintenance (for both 2WD and AWD) for years 4-5...

5-year maintenance cost @15k/yr.
AWD: ($166 : $637 : $382 : $2,190 : $1,545)
2WD: ($166 : $576 : $382 : $2,057 : $1,617)

with about $660 post-warranty repairs through 5 years/75k miles.

5-year depreciation ranges from 44% for the EX to 48% for Touring. This will be near class-leading (Highlander is lower) and well below average of 58.3% for SUVs/trucks.

Honda NAV units continue to be way too expensive to justify on value, contributing over $1000 to 5-year cost-to-own.

This early view IMHO is that the Ridgeline cost-to-own will be similar to Gen1 with the only major change being in fuel costs due to increased efficiency and lower gas prices.

 

[zroger73]

All are built at Lincoln and are not prototypes, but rather pre-production units. There are three levels of pre-production units. The final being pre-mass-production units.

Sorry - just now seeing this reply. In the context of the second generation Ridgeline, what are the actual differences (if any) between "prototype", "pre-production", and "pre-mass-production", and "mass production" builds?

 

[fraugher]

Pilot Ownership Costs at Edmunds:
http://www.edmunds.com/honda/pilot/2016/st-200738519/cost-to-own/

Not sure when these numbers came out, but Edmunds now has True Cost to Own data on the 2016 Pilot, a good indication where this will fall for the Ridgeline. In general, it looks similar to the older Pilot, except with lower fuel expenditure. Edmunds is not showing an insurance discount for Honda Sensing but I realized a 15% discount between an Outback with Eyesight and without.

Edmunds showing elevated expenses for non-repair Maintenance (for both 2WD and AWD) for years 4-5...

5-year maintenance cost @15k/yr.
AWD: ($166 : $637 : $382 : $2,190 : $1,545)
2WD: ($166 : $576 : $382 : $2,057 : $1,617)

with about $660 post-warranty repairs through 5 years/75k miles.

5-year depreciation ranges from 44% for the EX to 48% for Touring. This will be near class-leading (Highlander is lower) and well below average of 58.3% for SUVs/trucks.

Honda NAV units continue to be way too expensive to justify on value, contributing over $1000 to 5-year cost-to-own.

This early view IMHO is that the Ridgeline cost-to-own will be similar to Gen1 with the only major change being in fuel costs due to increased efficiency and lower gas prices.

 

[fraugher]

Was reading today about a Hybrid Odyssey first reveal at Tokyo auto show... but probably is the JDM Odyssey? (no photos or details provided).

 

[fraugher]

CR finally finishes testing on the Pilot. Seems they drove the same one I did, when I got flamed here for remarking on my test drive's poor handling and vague steering while praising the powertrain.

CR:

"Its cumbersome cornering makes the Pilot feel reluctant to turn."

"The steering is not very swift in response, and vague"

"The 3.5-liter V6 is a gem, smoothly and promptly delivering power throughout its rev range... but shoppers should stick with the six-speed"

"20 mpg overall on regular" (they got 16 in their RL)

"Off-road: the Pilot is not intended for off-roading at all"

"The Pilot had mediocre braking performance, especially in the wet"

"Cabin finish hits the class average"

"A nice touch: inboard folding armrests that are height-adjustable." :act018:

"Using the touch-screen radio, found on most higher trimlines, is a mess, but other controls are mostly easy. Big, clearly-labeled climate control buttons are welcome.... the base-trim LX's radio is super-simple to use, with conventional buttons for presets and mode selection and conventional knobs for tuning and volume"