[cccbock]

I am thinking that Honda will not give warranty coverage if they can determine that an aftermarket system has been used that defeats a primary operating functionality on their vehicle. And I'm also sure they will have a way to determine if the VCM has been operating normally even if one were to remove the Muzzler prior to taking the vehicle for warranty service.

And unfortunately, the few thousand people that will install a Muzzler are a small concern to Honda in the big picture. They will simply deny warranty coverage for whatever small percentage they have to deal with. They have made the calculation that pleasing the Feds, and getting that extra 1 or 2 mpg outweighs any possible warranty concerns. they have designed the system to function normally to some point well beyond the warranty coverage period. After the warranty period? Honda could care less what you do to the vehicle. It's your money.

For those few Honda buyers that understand what the VCM is actually doing and the potential effects to their vehicle it will become a simple decision, yes or no... do I buy this vehicle? If they trade vehicles within the warranty period as many do, the VCM will make no difference. The vast majority of buyers will not know the VCM is even functioning in their vehicle. The rest will be told by the dealer when they bring their vehicle in for service that the "problem" they are experiencing is "normal" or "common" and to suck it up and move on. Those of us that keep a vehicle for 200K miles may well say NO to VCM. I know I will.

 

[cccbock]

If you think about it, VCM was designed to help meet specific government requirements.

There is no requirement for owners to meet any mpg standard. As long as you don't permanently disable any emission or other control device I don't see the issue.
Just use common sense in whatever you do.

And maybe the less said the better (except for complaining about VCM).

Totally agree. But.

In the era of EPA assigning carbon as a pollutant, it would not be out of the question to assign the VCM system (which purpose is it saves fuel/carbon) to the emission system set of components. Mess with that and you may find yourself with another problem. Just ask VW.

 

[cccbock]

Fortunately, nobody can force me to buy VCM. At least not yet. Honda may choose to implement it in the RL, and they will lose a few customers I guess. I don't think they are going to lose sleep over it.:act024:

 

[cccbock]

I think it is possible to engineer a truck with improved MPG and not use VCM. VCM is a cop-out in my opinion. They have it on the shelf, so they are using it. Unless Honda found a way to hit 30 mpg with this truck, I will not be interested in VCM. I'm not buying the tradeoff of mechanical wear to fuel savings.

I have a 1996 Camaro that has been modified to road race. When it was stock it had a 5.7L V8 engine, 275 hp, and got 26-27 mpg on the highway with a 6 speed manual tranny. The mpg speaks to aerodynamics and factory engine tuning. No VCM.

In race form, the car has a 6.2L engine, 425hp (to the wheels), and the same aero and has a highly modified racing tune. It gets 25mpg on the highway. No VCM.

Honda can do it. They don't need VCM. And with the small numbers of RL sales expected, 1 or 2 mpg on the RL will have little to no effect on the corporate CAFE.

 

[cccbock]

I'm not disputing your statement, but I'm curious as to how much your Camaro weighs. In my experience weight and number of gears have more effect on mpg than (gas) engine size, straight 6, V6 or V8.

3650 LBS with driver. The 6 speed is stock which has two (2) overdrive gears. It also has 315 series tires on it (huge). Stock rear. I realize 3650 is a lightweight by comparison to a Ridgeline, but the Camaro also has excellent aero as opposed to a sheetmetal brick floating through the air .

My main point is to say that the Camaro is almost 20 years old and has an engine capable of nearly double the horsepower of the RL. I'm thinking the Honda engineers could wring 26 or 27 out of the new Ridgeline (lighter with better aero than the old RL) and not need VCM. I could be wrong.

 

[cccbock]

Well you live in Florida, you need an optinal 2 wheel drive RL that you can modify for your needs. Just ask for it and see what Santa brings you just like the off road version some of us want. Some of us have been naughty and aint going to see it, another words take what is offered or move on. Im sure the new RL will be some bad ass shopping truck.
Edit: sorry off track, NO VCM for me.

I would agree with you except I'm one of those odd Floridians that actually needs 4wd. I am a real estate appraiser and find myself in the woods quite often. Then there is the towing boats and pulling them out on slick ramps side of things as well.

 

[cccbock]

I'll be most curious about your impressions when you have 117k miles on it. While Honda may have been able to make VCM operation transparent, I have serious concerns about the complexity of the system as well as the reliability of the engine over the long haul. The high oil consumption issue as well as engine rebuilds on (too) many VCM engines is pretty alarming.

If you don't keep a vehicle past 100k miles, you're probably ok. But for those of us who run them until they are no longer economical to maintain (most likely several hundred thousand miles), VCM is another matter altogether.

I'm with Speed. Let's remember also that the RL weighs in about 1000lbs more than Accord with what amounts to the same engine. VCM may not be so seamless with an extra 1000lbs to push around.

 

[cccbock]

And by default, those issues are THE reason to avoid VCM. IMNSHO.

Totally agreed. As has been said a number of times, VCM is only an issue if you keep your vehicle beyond the warranty period (or purchase it used). I think we will find that those of us that are against VCM are the same owners that put well over 100k miles on our vehicles before replacing them. I believe 100k miles is the max warranty you can purchase on the vehicle. Most people do not purchase the extended warranty, so Honda is mostly concerned that the VCM will function properly over the 3/36 normal warranty. After that it is your dime.

The vast majority of Honda buyers, if they know that the VCM even exists, will be sold a feature that improves fuel efficiency and they will be happy about it. Those of us that plan for an extended life and heavy use of the vehicle over a period of many years with the lowest possible service interactions...not so much.

 

[cccbock]

We own a 2013 V6 Touring, which of course has VCM. Generally speaking (say 99% of the time) the only way to tell that the car has switched from 3 to 6 cylinder operational or vice versa is looking at the instant MPG gauge. If v2 RL has VCM, I am not concerned.

As a side note: 70,000 miles in, no issues on the Accord.

Those of us that are concerned with VCM for the most part are not worried about driveability so much. More concerned about long term maintenance (post warranty) and engine longevity. The Ridgeline also weighs about 1000 lbs more than an Accord so the transitions may not be as smooth. I will run my 2012 Ridgeline, like my first 2006 Ridgeline, out to about 7 or 8 years and 200,000 miles. Hope I'm wrong about VCM but I've been building engines and racing them for about 35 years. I am concerned.

 

[cccbock]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Because a whole lot of people commute in truck. Remember when gas was $5 per gallon......some day it will return.

Witha heavy load, towing, going fast ( 80) VCM will stay off by itself.

If just cruising VCM will get maybe 7- 10% better MPG in the fleet EPA world 7-10% that is a big number.

It extremely in likely they will put a driver disable button for VCM. They may "tune" VCM to be less active in the RL vs the Pilot.

Admittedly, I do not know how fleet MPG is calculated, but I doubt Ridgeline makes even a dent in Honda's fleet stats. It is a low production vehicle in a vast universe of Civics, Fits, Odysseys, and Accords. I think VCM is there primarily to up the Ridgeline numbers for marketing and marketing alone. They have some catching up to do with some other trucks to stay competitive.

I'll just go ahead and say it. From my POV, VCM is a pure gimmick, with more gimmickry to make it driveable (a.k.a. unnoticeable to the average driver). It lets a manufacturer keep the big displacement motors for towing and hauling but jury rigs the highway MPG to meet the North American market demands. Just driving around town, which is what 90% of the Ridgelines will do 90% of the time, would only require about 100 horsepower or less which you can easily get with a normally aspirated 2.0L engine. But with a truck you occasionally need some torque. In my opinion they should offer a real no-gimmick engine for those that want it or need it and let everyone else love on their VCM. My $0.02

 

[cccbock]

It is unclear to me how Honda could put VCM in the RL. I can not see how the vehicle can drop to just 3 cylinders at any speed while hauling or towing. What am I missing?

Thanks

In all likelihood the VCM would not initiate while towing anything over a couple thousand pounds except possibly downhill on a low grade. I don't know the logic, but it would be a good assumption that the VCM would only operate above certain speeds (highway) and at low load factor (top gear engaged for a period of time). They may have other logic built in as well. I am just unfamiliar with it. And I don't intend to become familiar with it.