[retroman]

Disclaimer......I do love Honda's, no wheels, two wheeled or four.

As I imagine a lot of you are doing, I have been waiting for every scrap of news about the new RL. The one thing I hope doesn't make it onto the truck is VCM.

I just recently bought a 2012 Pilot which when Googled showed no indication the problems that VCM have inflicted on most if not all Pilot owners. From oil consumption issues due to coked up oil rings, from too much gas injected into the 3 working cylinders; resulting in piston ring replacement; to replacing driveshafts and carrier bearings, to active engine mounts being ruined to the tune of hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.

My truck had its rings replaced at 51,000 kms which was only disclosed to me when the extended warranty was transferred to me upon signing the contract. I did have 120 days to do an exchange, but I found something to ease my mind.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/171813285117

I keep my vehicles for the long run and putting this device on my Pilot has made my truck work better and hopefully last longer.

I don't know how anyone could engineer a beautiful 6 cylinder engine to run on 3 cylinders and expect it to last and not vibrate itself, and everthing else around it to death.

Hopefully Honda will rethink designing a system, just for a mpg test, considering the implications further down the road in warranty costs. If not, please include an OFF button or I will have to order up another VCMuzzler.

Cheers
Tony

 

[retroman]

I see no reason to put a system into a vehicle that will save me less than $150.00 in fuel per year, but cost me possibly thousands in repairs. Seriously folks, the fuel cost of running the VCMuzzler, is at most, 1mpg or 21 miles per tank. In some conditions people have reported better mpg with the VCMuzzler.

The two Honda dealers I spoke to about replacing piston rings cylinders 1-3 and spark plugs 1-4 on my Pilot wouldn't tell me how much that peticular service would cost me out of warranty. I'm guessing, even in twenty years of driving costing me an extra $150.00 a year it still wouldn't cover the cost of that service; let alone other damage, like driveshafts and motor mounts.

They won't put an off button for the VCM as the government would require them to test it in the off position and Loren in Alberta Canada is making a pretty penny selling these VCMuzzlers.

Cheers
Tony

 

[retroman]

I am thinking that Honda will not give warranty coverage if they can determine that an aftermarket system has been used that defeats a primary operating functionality on their vehicle. And I'm also sure they will have a way to determine if the VCM has been operating normally even if one were to remove the Muzzler prior to taking the vehicle for warranty service.

And unfortunately, the few thousand people that will install a Muzzler are a small concern to Honda in the big picture. They will simply deny warranty coverage for whatever small percentage they have to deal with. They have made the calculation that pleasing the Feds, and getting that extra 1 or 2 mpg outweighs any possible warranty concerns. they have designed the system to function normally to some point well beyond the warranty coverage period. After the warranty period? Honda could care less what you do to the vehicle. It's your money.

For those few Honda buyers that understand what the VCM is actually doing and the potential effects to their vehicle it will become a simple decision, yes or no... do I buy this vehicle? If they trade vehicles within the warranty period as many do, the VCM will make no difference. The vast majority of buyers will not know the VCM is even functioning in their vehicle. The rest will be told by the dealer when they bring their vehicle in for service that the "problem" they are experiencing is "normal" or "common" and to suck it up and move on. Those of us that keep a vehicle for 200K miles may well say NO to VCM. I know I will.

Very well stated.

I still bought the Pilot as it best fitted my families needs.

I think Honda would have to install ECT1 settings into the onboard EDR and have the EDR record for longer than the 30 seconds that it does, for Honda to know that the VCMuzzler was installed. Loren has detected no stored codes when VCMuzzler is removed but does recommend disconnecting the battery for 20 minutes a couple of days before e-testing, to generate a new vehicle emissions history.

That being said I know Honda would be informing their dealerships about what to watch for. I'm sure these forums and others are being monitored, but I don't care. If Honda denied me warranty coverage I would take them to court and ask them to prove that the VCMuzzler caused whatever damage they were refusing to cover. I would in turn show up with empirical evidence of the litany of problems VCM has caused.

It would be cheaper to pay up to the tiny amount that use the VCMuzzler as they're protecting their investment better than Honda can.

Cheers
Tony

 

[retroman]

None of this makes defeating VCM any less socially irresponsible.

IMHO defeating VCM is socially responsible. Think of all the emissions the factories and transportation devices put out making new components to replace the components that VCM destroys. How much energy used and emissions created to make a new driveshaft, box it, transport it to a distribution centre, then dealership and the emissions caused by melting the old driveshaft back down for something else. The TSB on the driveshaft specifically states to "discard all bolts and hardware associated with the old driveshaft. Where do they end up, but in a landfill somewhere. The really sad part is, it's not the driveshaft that's the problem but the carrier bearing on the shaft. But instead of making a driveshaft with the carrier bearing that can be replaced easily like on another vehicle I own, Honda makes the driveshaft/carrier bearing unit one piece, to save a few precious moments in assembly.

How many components ended up in the land fill or recycling bin, long before they should of from my engine overhaul; old gaskets/seals, spark plugs, piston rings, bearings, lube, coolant, one use bolts that have to be replaced.

All this to save 1 mpg, maybe?

Talk about recycling. I bought and restored a 1983 Airstream turbo diesel Classic motorhome, 30+ years old and still going, with carrier bearings that are $42.00 for the one that's sealed and easily replaced. I will probably end up in the landfill before she will.

Cheers
Tony

 

[retroman]

I thought my comment came across as more sarcastic ... I guess I did not know my audience... tough crowd!!!
Seriously, I have run across some who are very adamant about such issues. I would think you would know by now I don't take things that seriously.
I do think in terms of a Honda design in particular, that VCM is poor substitute for better engineering. Just look at all the modern V6's that do not use VCM. I expected more out of Honda.

But let's all lighten up a little, things are not that bad. And there are always other options.

Sorry, my bad for not catching the sarcastic tone in your post. As you see I always end my posts with "Cheers".

I'm just hoping against all hope that Honda with its incredible ability to engineer magic, will as you stated, come up with a better solution than running an engine on three cylinders for the next Ridgeline, as it's difficult promoting your company with Earth Dreams motors, if the motor causes more damage to the Earth in the long run.:act030:

If we don't speak up, we loose our say.

Cheers
Tony

 

[retroman]

There's a lesson to be learned there.. if you can't build it right don't build it!

Exactly! Don't engineer to the test; forgetting that the ultimate test is how durable your vehicles are perceived to be. The consumer will never notice 1mpg but will remember thousands of dollars in repairs over the long run.

Cheers
Tony

 

[retroman]

Well, if VCM cannot be disabled, the turbo 4 is starting to look like a better option (and Honda's four-cylinder is bulletproof!). (

Nothing is bulletproof when you stick an explosive device (turbo) on it. Turbos require a whole new rethink on vehicle maintenance, and service intervals.

Turbo heat promotes coking in very low viscosity oils like the 0W-20 that Honda uses, leading to oil consumption on the order of 1 litre, or quart, every 1600 kms/ 1000 miles. Just ask a lot of Maxda CX7 owners about their cars, which have a reputation of not IF, the turbo will blow, but when. Subaru Forester XT owners and other 2.5 turbo owners also have had oil consumption problems. One interesting problem the Subie people face is a lack of communication from their service people as I'm sure no one tells them about the very tiny (I do mean tiny) oil filter in the oil line feeding the turbo. The filter is designed to capture any particles in the oil and protect the turbo; HOWEVER, once the filter gets plugged, no oil gets to the turbo, and BOOM.

http://blog.1aauto.com/2012/05/30/got-subaru-turbo-read/

The problem is the maintenance minders (MM) that most modern cars use to remind their drivers to service their cars. Take my 2012 Pilot for example; the MM will instruct driver to change oil once the reminder has decided the oil life is almost used up, based on engine revolutions and load. The MM however DOESN'T tell the driver that the oil level is low due to oil consumption. Some Pilot owners reported that once the check engine light came on it was too late as engine damage/failure had occured due to lack of oil. A more sophisticated MM needs to be used for turbo cars that reads oil life and level.

The consumer also needs to be educated that buying a turbo motor means that oil changes cannot ever be missed.

My boss bought his wife a 2010 VW Jetta TDI, crowing about how many MPG it go, the 15,000 km oil service intervals and how much money he would save. The oil changes were very expensive and I'm sure a few were extended. Four years later the turbo shaft broke which allowed oil to gain entry into the exhaust which destroyed the catalytic converters and the particulate filters. VW quoted $7,000.00 in parts alone to fix. He traded for a gas model.

IMHO If you buy a vehicle with the intention of driving it for the long term, there is no replacement for displacement. A low stress bigger motor will out last a turbo small displacement motor; even if you take care of it.

Good links on turbo's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y8LEPSKxmM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGePObiMAMw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xmbBRmVWU8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gleqLF9_zjk

Sorry for the long winded post.

Cheers
Tony