Please no VCM Honda

22675 Views 81 Replies 27 Participants Last post by longboat, Jan 21, 2016

retroman

Discussion Starter · Dec 5, 2015 (Edited)

Disclaimer......I do love Honda's, no wheels, two wheeled or four.

As I imagine a lot of you are doing, I have been waiting for every scrap of news about the new RL. The one thing I hope doesn't make it onto the truck is VCM.

I just recently bought a 2012 Pilot which when Googled showed no indication the problems that VCM have inflicted on most if not all Pilot owners. From oil consumption issues due to coked up oil rings, from too much gas injected into the 3 working cylinders; resulting in piston ring replacement; to replacing driveshafts and carrier bearings, to active engine mounts being ruined to the tune of hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.

My truck had its rings replaced at 51,000 kms which was only disclosed to me when the extended warranty was transferred to me upon signing the contract. I did have 120 days to do an exchange, but I found something to ease my mind.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/171813285117

I keep my vehicles for the long run and putting this device on my Pilot has made my truck work better and hopefully last longer.

I don't know how anyone could engineer a beautiful 6 cylinder engine to run on 3 cylinders and expect it to last and not vibrate itself, and everthing else around it to death.

Hopefully Honda will rethink designing a system, just for a mpg test, considering the implications further down the road in warranty costs. If not, please include an OFF button or I will have to order up another VCMuzzler.

Cheers
Tony

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DogOnBoard

· #41 · Dec 10, 2015

So I'm a little puzzled by all the chatter about VCM v.2.0 -- as if there is any real question about it being on the G2 RL. Unless Joe's info is just plain wrong, the next gen Ridge will get the same ED DI 3.5 with VCM just like the 2016 Pilot (albeit with tuning tweaks). I suppose there is still a very slight chance that Honda will provide an override switch but that seems like a pipe dream to me. Either VCM is a deal-breaker for some folks or they'll consider installing a VCMuzzler. And that's why I was trying to get an answer regarding the Muzzler's compatibility with the new Pilot. Maybe it's time to head back over to the Piloteers and do some research.

cccbock

· #42 · Dec 10, 2015

speedlever said:
And by default, those issues are THE reason to avoid VCM. IMNSHO.

Totally agreed. As has been said a number of times, VCM is only an issue if you keep your vehicle beyond the warranty period (or purchase it used). I think we will find that those of us that are against VCM are the same owners that put well over 100k miles on our vehicles before replacing them. I believe 100k miles is the max warranty you can purchase on the vehicle. Most people do not purchase the extended warranty, so Honda is mostly concerned that the VCM will function properly over the 3/36 normal warranty. After that it is your dime.

The vast majority of Honda buyers, if they know that the VCM even exists, will be sold a feature that improves fuel efficiency and they will be happy about it. Those of us that plan for an extended life and heavy use of the vehicle over a period of many years with the lowest possible service interactions...not so much.

longboat

· #43 · Dec 10, 2015

I dunno. Honda's reputation for their engine reliability is by far the number one reason most people ever think about Honda in the first place. If they start losing many engines due to VCM, that would be akin to the company essentially committing suicide. I cannot believe Honda would be that reckless with their engineering, and more importantly, their long-standing reputation.

Any other low- to mid-tier company, I can see them just trying to skirt warranty issues. Not Honda. I expect their engineering, and support behind it, to be similar to, say, Mercedes Benz, Porsche, Bentley, etc., but at prices that we can afford. If Honda loses its reputation, they will sink quickly as people move toward Hyundai, which seems to have a LOT in common with the Honda of the 80s/90s.

speedlever

· #44 · Dec 10, 2015

longboat said:
I dunno. Honda's reputation for their engine reliability is by far the number one reason most people ever think about Honda in the first place. If they start losing many engines due to VCM, that would be akin to the company essentially committing suicide. I cannot believe Honda would be that reckless with their engineering, and more importantly, their long-standing reputation.

Any other low- to mid-tier company, I can see them just trying to skirt warranty issues. Not Honda. I expect their engineering, and support behind it, to be similar to, say, Mercedes Benz, Porsche, Bentley, etc., but at prices that we can afford. If Honda loses its reputation, they will sink quickly as people move toward Hyundai, which seems to have a LOT in common with the Honda of the 80s/90s.

My personal opinion is that under Ito, there was no concept of maintaining a legacy (at least not the legendary dependability legacy). I'm not sure what his raison d'être was.

Just Googling Honda VCM lawsuit results in this page:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=honda vcm lawsuit

I have to wonder how many of the GP (general public) actually follow stuff like this and know of issues before they buy?

And then look at Honda's apparent blind eye concerning the radiator/tranny fitting issue.

Honda is good, no question. But Honda is not perfect, just like Toyota. And while I now have 3 Honda vehicles in the family, I am not brand loyal. I personally don't see a single vehicle in the current lineup that I have any interest in buying. OK, maybe one, the new NSX.

(where is that winning lottery ticket when ya need it?)

And I pessimistically await the arrival of the Gen 2 RL and hope that I am blown away rather than underwhelmed. Realistically, I expect it will be a mix of the two.

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rollinhonda

· #45 · Dec 10, 2015

And as life goes on our needs change with regards to vehicles. You line up the candidates and maybe see where a Honda fits in. If it does not there are always alternatives.

A Honda N600 coupe, a 2002 MDX, a 2003 CRV, were 3 very reliable and useful vehicles at the time. Many, many non-Honda cars and trucks filled the gaps between those. But the RL has always stood out as a treasure on it's own merits.

speedlever

· #46 · Dec 10, 2015

I agree. The gen 1 RL has been and continues to be a unique vehicle that is unmatched in the marketplace.

Let's see what Gen 2 brings to the table, VCM or not.

Dnick

· #47 · Dec 10, 2015

rollinhonda said:
And as life goes on our needs change with regards to vehicles. You line up the candidates and maybe see where a Honda fits in. If it does not there are always alternatives.

A Honda N600 coupe, a 2002 MDX, a 2003 CRV, were 3 very reliable and useful vehicles at the time. Many, many non-Honda cars and trucks filled the gaps between those. But the RL has always stood out as a treasure on it's own merits.

Sorry for the topic-stray.... but what the heck were you doing with an N600? And when?

longboat

· #48 · Dec 10, 2015

Well, if VCM cannot be disabled, the turbo 4 is starting to look like a better option (and Honda's four-cylinder is bulletproof!). I'll bet they can squeeze a much higher percentage of power out of it than the V6, without compromising reliability/durability. Just have to battle a some misconceptions via marketing, which Honda lacks. ; (

retroman

Discussion Starter · #49 · Dec 11, 2015 (Edited)

longboat said:
Well, if VCM cannot be disabled, the turbo 4 is starting to look like a better option (and Honda's four-cylinder is bulletproof!). (

Nothing is bulletproof when you stick an explosive device (turbo) on it. Turbos require a whole new rethink on vehicle maintenance, and service intervals.

Turbo heat promotes coking in very low viscosity oils like the 0W-20 that Honda uses, leading to oil consumption on the order of 1 litre, or quart, every 1600 kms/ 1000 miles. Just ask a lot of Maxda CX7 owners about their cars, which have a reputation of not IF, the turbo will blow, but when. Subaru Forester XT owners and other 2.5 turbo owners also have had oil consumption problems. One interesting problem the Subie people face is a lack of communication from their service people as I'm sure no one tells them about the very tiny (I do mean tiny) oil filter in the oil line feeding the turbo. The filter is designed to capture any particles in the oil and protect the turbo; HOWEVER, once the filter gets plugged, no oil gets to the turbo, and BOOM.

http://blog.1aauto.com/2012/05/30/got-subaru-turbo-read/

The problem is the maintenance minders (MM) that most modern cars use to remind their drivers to service their cars. Take my 2012 Pilot for example; the MM will instruct driver to change oil once the reminder has decided the oil life is almost used up, based on engine revolutions and load. The MM however DOESN'T tell the driver that the oil level is low due to oil consumption. Some Pilot owners reported that once the check engine light came on it was too late as engine damage/failure had occured due to lack of oil. A more sophisticated MM needs to be used for turbo cars that reads oil life and level.

The consumer also needs to be educated that buying a turbo motor means that oil changes cannot ever be missed.

My boss bought his wife a 2010 VW Jetta TDI, crowing about how many MPG it go, the 15,000 km oil service intervals and how much money he would save. The oil changes were very expensive and I'm sure a few were extended. Four years later the turbo shaft broke which allowed oil to gain entry into the exhaust which destroyed the catalytic converters and the particulate filters. VW quoted $7,000.00 in parts alone to fix. He traded for a gas model.

IMHO If you buy a vehicle with the intention of driving it for the long term, there is no replacement for displacement. A low stress bigger motor will out last a turbo small displacement motor; even if you take care of it.

Good links on turbo's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y8LEPSKxmM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGePObiMAMw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xmbBRmVWU8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gleqLF9_zjk

Sorry for the long winded post.

Cheers
Tony

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runsondiesel

· #50 · Dec 11, 2015

Hi when my wife wanted a 2012 Acura RDX with a turbo 4 I refused. We waited and bought the 2013 RDX with the 3.5 V6 and VCM. I don't regret it in the least.

longboat

· #51 · Dec 11, 2015

My sister had an '84 Dodge Daytona that she put 184k on before she sold it. Not a luck of problems with the engine or turbo. Maybe it was the 10w40 oil that was so ubiquitous back then...

longboat

· #52 · Dec 11, 2015

longboat said:
My sister had an '84 Dodge Daytona that she put 184k on before she sold it. Not a luck of problems with the engine or turbo. Maybe it was the 10w40 oil that was so ubiquitous back then...

That should be "not a lick of problems"

Dnick

· #53 · Dec 11, 2015

longboat said:
That should be "not a lick of problems"

Say Longboat.... if you didn't know, there's an edit button at the bottom of posts that you create that allows you to go back & fix 'em after the fact. You do have to be logged in to see it however. It's right next to the "quote" button.

longboat

· #54 · Dec 11, 2015

Dnick said:
Say Longboat.... if you didn't know, there's an edit button at the bottom of posts that you create that allows you to go back & fix 'em after the fact. You do have to be logged in to see it however. It's right next to the "quote" button.

Yeah, almost all of my posts are from my phone, through the app. I haven't found anywhere on the app to do editing.. I'm hardly around a desktop computer anymore.. I can't remember the last time I went to the forum website.

darkeye

· #55 · Dec 22, 2015

spark plug fouling only affected up to 2013 model year and they came out with a new earth dreams engine I wouldn't be too concerned about it going forward

Heli ATP

· #56 · Dec 22, 2015

http://autoweek.com/article/wait-theres-more/sure-hondajet-nice-does-it-have-vtec

FTM1

· #57 · Dec 22, 2015

longboat said:
Yeah, almost all of my posts are from my phone, through the app. I haven't found anywhere on the app to do editing.. I'm hardly around a desktop computer anymore.. I can't remember the last time I went to the forum website.

I hated posting from phone also my laptop power cord broke but I purchased new laptop gave nephew old after replaced AC cord.

speedlever

· #58 · Dec 23, 2015

Heli ATP said:
http://autoweek.com/article/wait-theres-more/sure-hondajet-nice-does-it-have-vtec

Hilarious!

fraugher

· #59 · Dec 23, 2015

speedlever said:
Hilarious!

Good start to the morning ! With the turbine over wing, They could definitely slam that thing right down to a few inches and put some 22s on it.

runsondiesel

· #60 · Dec 23, 2015

fraugher said:
Good start to the morning ! With the turbine over wing, They could definitely slam that thing right down to a few inches and put some 22s on it.

But that would hurt the ground clearance and approach and departure angles wouldn't it? :act029:

41 - 60 of 82 Posts

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