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Discussion Starter #1
I have had my BE since last June. I love it. This has happened twice. It happened again today. I open the door that is unlocked (its in my garage). I get in with my key, put my put on the brake pedal and the pedal is solid. It will not go down. I push the start and I get aux mode. I lift my foot off the brake and back on. It still not not go down. The truck will not start. The display just says to put my foot on the brake to start. The first time this happened, I waited a couple of minutes and then it worked. Today, my buddy hit the unlock button on the remote and then the brake pedal went down and the truck started. With the doors unlocked, is there still something that prevents the truck from starting until you hit unlock?
 

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Re: This is a new one

Anything that causes a loss of vacuum in the brake booster such as pressing the brake pedal more than once or twice after the engine is turned off will cause a "hard" pedal. If the pedal can't move enough to activate the brake switch, the vehicle will go to accessory instead of starting when you press the START/STOP button. Pressing the pedal firmly enough to turn on the brake lights should allow it to start then you'll feel the pedal sink after the engine starts. There are no mechanical interlocks that would prevent the brake pedal from being pressed under any conditions. The vehicle starting after your buddy pressed the unlock button was just a coincidence - you just happened to have pressed the brake pedal hard enough to activate the brake lights.

Having said that, a brake booster should hold enough vacuum to allow the brake pedal to be easily depressed at least 1 to 2 times even after the vehicle has been sitting for a day or two or more. If you're absolutely certain that nobody is depleting the vacuum supply in the brake booster by pressing the brake pedal after shutting the engine off, then you may have a faulty check valve or leaking brake booster.
 

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Re: This is a new one

My guess is a bad battery. My 2.5 old Accord got one last week. Yes the pedal was firm but a jump did start the car so I took it to the dealer under the 3/36. It died again at the dealer when they tried to start it to check the mileage. A lot of clicking and flashing lights so I know that it wasn't holding a charge.They gave me a loaner while they did some other checks. So far so good. Hope it was just the battery and not the car.

When a battery gets low or dead all types of crazy stuff happens and the dash can get like an Xmas tree. A long shot may be to use the shift lever release but I would take it to the dealer and have the battery checked.
 

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Re: This is a new one

The OP is dealing with a 4 month-old vehicle. It's possible, but unlikely to have a bad battery. The shift lock override isn't useful for his/her problem since the complaint is being unable to start the vehicle, not the inability to shift from Park. Failing batteries can cause all sorts of odd behavior, but they won't cause a firm brake pedal.
 

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Re: This is a new one

The conspiracy theorist in me says that Honda used master cylinders with insufficient capacity (per the brake thread) and is treading a fine line of overfilling said cylinders, thus leaving insufficient room to maintain proper vacuum. But that's all hogwash....
:)
 

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Re: This is a new one

The same thing actually happened to me last week, but I didn't pay too much attention to what lead up prior to it. I'm going to subscribe to this in case it happens again in the future!
 

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Re: This is a new one

Failing batteries can cause all sorts of odd behavior, but they won't cause a firm brake pedal.
Not true as I went through this last week simply because you have to push the pedal to start. It the car doesn't start you will have a firm pedal. I was shocked that a battery could be bad after 2.5 years and the service manager told me that he has seen it on brand new cars due to a bad cell FWIW anyway. Also, when mine didn't start I thought "neutral safety switch" so I tried to start it in neutral and the shifter wouldn't move. I attempted with the key in the shift lock and it moved but yes, wasn't related but worth a try. I should have known better because prior to this I was recording names for the speed dial but the menus were inconsistent in terms of available options between presets.
 

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Re: This is a new one

Not true as I went through this last week simply because you have to push the pedal to start. It the car doesn't start you will have a firm pedal.
The condition of the battery has absolutely no direct correlation to the amount of effort required to make the brake pedal move. Electrical energy doesn't provide brake pedal assist - vacuum produced by a running engine does (there are a few exceptions such as some GM trucks). If there's no vacuum left in the brake booster when you press the brake pedal before starting, the pedal will be firm and it won't matter what condition the battery is in - the vacuum assist won't be present to lower the pedal until after the engine starts. There is an electrically-powered pump that provides hydraulic pressure to the brakes under certain conditions such as traction control, VSA, AHA, CMBS, RDM, and ACC, and BA, but those features only activate when the vehicle is in motion. The pump doesn't operate when the vehicle isn't moving.
 

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Re: This is a new one

The condition of the battery has absolutely no direct correlation to the amount of effort required to make the brake pedal move. Electrical energy doesn't provide brake pedal assist - vacuum produced by a running engine does (there are a few exceptions such as some GM trucks). If there's no vacuum left in the brake booster when you press the brake pedal before starting, the pedal will be firm and it won't matter what condition the battery is in - the vacuum assist won't be present to lower the pedal until after the engine starts. There is an electrically-powered pump that provides hydraulic pressure to the brakes under certain conditions such as traction control, VSA, AHA, CMBS, RDM, and ACC, and BA, but those features only activate when the vehicle is in motion. The pump doesn't operate when the vehicle isn't moving.
I agree with all of this but it takes just one push of the pedal with an engine that is off and you will have a firm pedal. I agree that there is do direct relation between the two. However, the firm pedal is a direct consequence of a no start condition because you have to depress the pedal to start the engine.
 

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Re: This is a new one

The condition of the battery has absolutely no direct correlation to the amount of effort required to make the brake pedal move. Electrical energy doesn't provide brake pedal assist - vacuum produced by a running engine does (there are a few exceptions such as some GM trucks). If there's no vacuum left in the brake booster when you press the brake pedal before starting, the pedal will be firm and it won't matter what condition the battery is in - the vacuum assist won't be present to lower the pedal until after the engine starts. There is an electrically-powered pump that provides hydraulic pressure to the brakes under certain conditions such as traction control, VSA, AHA, CMBS, RDM, and ACC, and BA, but those features only activate when the vehicle is in motion. The pump doesn't operate when the vehicle isn't moving.
zroger is telling you the truth! My '88 4Runner with >300,000 miles and no fancy electronics (not even a cup holder) had a sudden failure of the brake booster. I was driving around town, stopped for 5 minutes to pick up a take-out food order, got back into the 4Runner and the brake pedal felt like someone had glued it in place with Superglue-no exaggeration! I drove the 20 miles home very slowly in lower gears, giving 10 car lengths to anyone in front of me and preparing to stop 60 seconds in advance. Everytime I had to stop it required a Herculean effort to force the brake pedal down and it barely budged. Once home I got an internet education on brake boosters. After finding no obstruction/holes in the vacuum line to the engine I removed the brake booster, which was mounted to the firewall directly behind the master brake cylinder. New brake booster returned pedal function to normal. I assume the old booster had a tiny hole in the internal bellows, hence the loss of a vacuum assist in depressing brake. I would have taken the old booster apart to see; however, apparently the vacuum assists a very powerful spring and when disassembling the booster one can be hurt by this spring flying through the air (i.e., curiosity killed the cat).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: This is a new one

Well, I was hoping this was some kind of security "feature". It appears it is a problem. I am not alone this issue. It appears to be the same issue reported/discussed on the Pilot forum. The weird part is that I don't know what I am doing to get it to work again. One moment the brake won't budge (not even an inch), and the next it works fine. I thought unlocking it from the FOB was the solution, but it seems that was a coincident. I will be more scientific next time it happens and write down everything I do. If anyone has suggestions on what I should try, let me know.
 

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I started having this problem a couple of weeks ago. It's seems mine always does it when the outside air temp is cool in the morning. At least two of the times I noticed the outside air temp was around 40 degrees last week.
Past couple of mornings here have been mild with morning temps around 60 degrees. The break pedal functioned as normal.
I wonder if outside air temp plays any roll in this?
 

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Re: This is a new one

Take it in for dealer service if they can't find problem or duplicate and say nothing found it's okay. You still have paperwork trial and that will cover you even sometimes when vehicle is out of warranty years down the road
Goodwill Warranty or Repair if they don't issue a TSB or Recall.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Re: This is a new one

Both times I had this issue, it was not below 50. The truck had sat for a couple of days without being started. Do you know what you did to get the brake pedal to function normally ?
 

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Both times I had this issue, it was not below 50. The truck had sat for a couple of days without being started. Do you know what you did to get the brake pedal to function normally ?
With mine, the truck had only sat over night maybe 10-12 hours. When I pushed the brake pedal, it would move slightly and I was able to start. When the engine started, the brake pedal would go through its normal range of motion.
 

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Re: This is a new one

I am thinking THIS is linked to the brake issue some people are reporting. A bad booster will make the brakes suck.
 

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Re: This is a new one

I actually owned a vehicle that had a direct correlation between battery voltage and pedal effort. 1990 Pontiac 6000SE. Electric assist brake booster. Scary to think of what would happen if an accident at speed caused a loss of battery voltage.

But I digress, these issues sound like something is leeching vacuum from the booster. (Likely a faulty check valve)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thought I would give an update on this. Since I posted this the hard brake pedal occurred four more times, for a total of 5. When I took the RL into the dealer for the first oil change, I asked them to find and fix this issue. Well, of course, they couldn't find any issue. It typically only happened when the truck sat for more than a day. The dealer said they cleaned the brakes (whatever that means). The very next day it happened again. After that incident I started tracing the brake lines. I found the check valve, which is under a fuse box and hard to get to. I removed the cover from the master cylinder. The master cylinder gasket had a crease in it, on one side. It was also expanded in one of the wells (there are two). The master cylinder seemed full. I straightened out the gasket, pushed in the expanded side and put it back on. Once I did that, I instantly noticed the braked were much firmer. That was two weeks ago. I have not had the hard brake pedal since. Not sure if that was the problem but it is starting to look that way.
 
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