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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Being new to Honda Technology and (as the rest of us) Honda Trucks this is basically a request for information from owners of Honda's in other formats.

What is the experience of owners of other Honda sizes regarding the use of synthetic fluids? Maybe I better qualify as to 'large' Hondas: I know the experiences under 'race' conditions.

As my experience with synthetics is under 'race' conditions (in a Miata) and 'instinctively' I'd say 'go with it', 'testimonials' may reveal alternative perspectives relative to 'large' vehicles, of which I am not aware.

Any advice will be helpful - especially as I (we) do not have an RTL Owners Manual / Shop Manual, etc, yet. Heck, maybe 'all' Hondas are delivered WITH synthetic fluids - in that case this should be a pretty short-lived thread!

Thanks

Maybe I should add I have purchased an RTL and due to 'track' comittments it will be a 'support' vehicle immediately after delivery - having the towing package installed AFTER that event - then it will be the 'hauling' vehicle!
 

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There's no problem at all running a good synthetic like Mobile 1 or Amsoil. If you really want to go nuts and learn all you ever wanted to know about oil & filters and discuss with others this is the site to visit. Don't let the silly url name fool you, there are some serious gear heads other there.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
 

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Use Amsoil in my 2002 CR-V (123 K on odometer) Use Moboil 1 in 2002 Chevy 2500 (93K on odometer) zero problems,no oil consumption. But do change at recommend times "Oil is Cheap compared to motors" I am going to use Amsoil in the Ridge RTL thats on order.
 

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Vertrkr, I have a question. I have also bought the RL and love it, but been doing some reading on different types of oil. I see you are going to use Mobil 10w30. Is there a reason you decided to use that rather then the 5w20 7500 mile oil? I have used Mobil synthetic and ames oil also. I think I will switch back to Mobil for the RL, but a little confused on what weight of oil I need to select. Also, how often will you change the oil and filter? Ok, if you have got this far, thanks for reading my question, and hope you have time to give me an answer...

Thanks
 

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Harry said:
Vertrkr, I have a question. I have also bought the RL and love it, but been doing some reading on different types of oil. I see you are going to use Mobil 10w30. Is there a reason you decided to use that rather then the 5w20 7500 mile oil? I have used Mobil synthetic and ames oil also. I think I will switch back to Mobil for the RL, but a little confused on what weight of oil I need to select. Also, how often will you change the oil and filter? Ok, if you have got this far, thanks for reading my question, and hope you have time to give me an answer...
I'll use 5w-30 not 10w. The difference between 5w-20 and 5w-30 is minimal in viscosity terms. The 5w-30 will be just slightly thicker at the higher temp scale end. Honda and other manufactures used to call for 5w-30 but around 2001 or so switched to recommend 5w-20 even though there was no change in the engines. Many believe this was only to qualify for government CAFE ratings. The 5w-20 will give you slighty better gas milage, around 1/10th mpg better. Nothing you'd ever notice but for the manufacture taking that number and multiplying be the number of cars they make it adds up and they can get a better CAFE rating.

Mobil does not make the 5w-20 in their new EP (extended protection) formula but they do have it in 5w-30 which is what I'll use. I'll still follow the oil change interval that is displayed in the dash, no set milage for that as it can vary depending on your conditions & driving but should be around 7,500 miles I think.

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance.aspx
 

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vertrkr said:
I'll use 5w-30 not 10w. The difference between 5w-20 and 5w-30 is minimal in viscosity terms. The 5w-30 will be just slightly thicker at the higher temp scale end. Honda and other manufactures used to call for 5w-30 but around 2001 or so switched to recommend 5w-20 even though there was no change in the engines. Many believe this was only to qualify for government CAFE ratings. The 5w-20 will give you slighty better gas milage, around 1/10th mpg better. Nothing you'd ever notice but for the manufacture taking that number and multiplying be the number of cars they make it adds up and they can get a better CAFE rating.

Mobil does not make the 5w-20 in their new EP (extended protection) formula but they do have it in 5w-30 which is what I'll use. I'll still follow the oil change interval that is displayed in the dash, no set milage for that as it can vary depending on your conditions & driving but should be around 7,500 miles I think.

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance.aspx
Mobil 1 does make a synthetic 5-20 though ( though it's not the extended performance as you say), and I think I'd feel more comfortable staying with Honda's recommendations. From my research, I understand it is probably best to stay with a regular 5-20 for the first 10-12,000 miles, and then switch to Mobil 1 full synthetic 15-20. The reason being your engine will break in and achieve that perfect fit and seating for all parts, because of the greater heat with regular oil. When you switch to Synthetic there should be little if any wear from then on out. You'll have a perfectly seated engine that should last hundreds of thousands of miles.
 

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I'm in the process of getting an RL soon, doing more research and finding a dealer in SoCal that have an RL -RTS or RT. I've been using Lubro Moly Vol-Syntesis 5w-30 full syntetic in my VW Passat. When i get my RL after the break-in period, I will be using the same brand and weight of oil. Never had a problem with and meets all specification for german and japanese requirements vehicles. :p
 

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Mobile 1 is not making 5-20.. They are making a 0-20, but when I ran it my F-150 5.4L the engine sounded much louder..... I switched it to Royal Purple 5-20 and it sound much softer.

Matco Tools
 

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I ran my Ridgline for 4,000 miles with the break in oil. I had installed an Amsoil pre-oiler installed which injects oil into the top of the engine to elimimate dry starts completely. I also had an Amsoil by-pass system installed which is a dual filter system that filters out water and contaminants. Also filters out particles as small as 1/10 of a micron. (regular filters only between 20-40 microns) I installed Amsoil 0W30 which is their best oil and replaces 5W20. It is fluid to -60, which up here in Northern NY is great as it gets down to -35. The by-pass system allows me to not have to change the oil at all until the lab says so. People have gone over 200,000 miles without draining the oil. At 45mph, in a six quart system the oil is "changed" every 5 minutes. My oil at one year old will be cleaner than someone who had an oil change a week earlier. The military has used these systems for years. I can get the systems at cost if anyone wants one. Sounds like overkill maybe, but nothing but the best goes on my baby. Today it was 14 degrees and she started like it was summer! Be safe...:)
 

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Hello,

By now most of you have heard of Amsoil. They just came out with a new oil filter using nano technology. The fibers are 80x smaller than a human hair. They trap smaller particles and have a much larger capacity. They are guaranteed for 25,000 miles or one year, or 17,000 miles for severe service (dusty conditions, towing etc.) I run their filters along with Amsoil 0W30 which replaces the 5W20. The 0W30 is their best oil, guaranteed for 35,000 miles or one year in a mechanically sound engine. Does not void warranty and Amsoil has their own warranty anyways.

I was in the Air Force before going with the State Police. Amsoil was started by a fighter pilot in 1972, and has been doing 25,000 mile oil changes since then. The stuff was really popular in the Air Force. I became a dealer at first just to get the discount. Now I set people up with their own account so they too can buy at wholesale, the same price I do. Amsoil in my opinion is still the superior synthetic oil, and it is made in the USA.

I'm not much of a salesman, but do the research for yourself. My site is www.ny-synthetic.com Make sure you contact me before you order so you can get the oil at wholesale. I hope this helps. Happy holidays.:)
 

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Let's see. Too soon interval, incorrect weight. Wonder how that will affect the warranty. Good luck on that.:rolleyes:
 

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Well Jim, that is interesting about the by-pass and Amsoil. It is a highly regarded product and their new filter should be just as good as their oil. How much does that filter cost?

I live in Texas but was born and raised in the Finger Lakes (in fact I am here now on my annual deer hunting trip). It was near 80 yesterday at home but only 18 degrees here yesterday with snow and wind blowing - you can guess where I would rather have been!! So I know about the cold temps in your part of the woods. However, I think I would stay with the XL 5w20 which is also a fine Amsoil product and approved by Honda. Plus, you would have the double protection of warranty by both Honda and Amsoil. Unless you use that weight you might run into a big problem down the road.

Honda has tested these engines with 5w20 under many conditions and I assume cold temps would be one of them. I'm not sure I would mess around with their oil recipe just yet. Having said that, I'm sure 30w will cause no harm as it is the recommend weight for the Ridgeline under load conditions and may be the weight recommended under normal driving in other countries as well.

BTW, I see you are in the "troops". They accepted me back in 1970 but I declined to go with the Feds (now retired). Sometimes I wonder if I made the right decision - LOL!
 

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arteegee said:
Let's see. Too soon interval, incorrect weight. Wonder how that will affect the warranty. Good luck on that.:rolleyes:

Hello Arteegee,

Thanks for the reply. To answer your concerns... The 0W30 is a safe alternative for the 5W20. Great for cold climates. Amsoil does have a 5W20 too. As far as the interval. AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil can be used during break-in trouble free. In fact, vehicles such as Dodge Viper and Chevrolet Corvette come factory filled with synthetic oil.

Since most new vehicles come filled with petroleum oil, it only makes good sense to change to AMSOIL at the first scheduled oil change interval. New engine components generate high levels of wear metals and can contain contaminants from assembly. By allowing the engine to operate with the petroleum oil until the first oil/filter change interval, the wear metals and contaminants are removed prior to installing AMSOIL.

As far as the warranty... Manufacturers’ warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service Classifications, for example, SJ/CF. (AMSOIL lubricants meet the current API Service requirements and, thus, are perfectly suited for use in any new vehicle without affecting the validity of the new vehicle warranty.)

Users of AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil need not fear altering their warranty coverage. The contention that using an after market product like AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil will void your warranty is not true.USING AMSOIL HAS NO EFFECT ON NEW CAR/TRUCK WARRANTIES. Major auto manufacturers and regulatory agencies have determined that warranties must cover all equipment failures they would normally cover that are not caused by the after market product. Consequently, an AMSOIL user's new car warranty still covers all failures resulting from defective original equipment or faulty workmanship by the manufacturer.
The second element of your protection is the AMSOIL Limited Warranty (use AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil as recommended in mechanically sound equipment, and the warranty covers lubricant-related failures). Since AMSOIL motor oils have never once been deemed the cause of an engine's failure, however, this is merely added protection.

Amsoil synthetic lubricants do not void warranties. The Magnuson-Moss Federal Warranty Act
of 1975 clearly explains warranty obligations and duties of all parties involved

Hope this helps. Happy Holidays
 

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I chose Mobil 1 5-20W for my first change and pre-purchased a case (6 pack) along with a Purolator Pure 1 filter for the change that will be done in about 1 month. I am at 30% life at 4,100 miles and anticipate about 5,000 when it is ready to go. That being said, I was interested to see this debate in this thread about merits of Mobil 1 and Amsoil and also a note in one of the comments about using the "Extended Performance" Mobil 1 product. I started to think maybe I bought the wrong Mobil 1 (non-extended performance variety) and was a bit concerned when I saw on the supplied Mobil 1 web site that 5-20W was not offered in the "extended performance" version. The Mobil web site page went on to explain how the extended performance version had more of the lubrication chemicals needed to ensure greater warrenty coverage, but it also seemed to very carefully not to compare the extended version against the old fashioned Mobil 1. What's up with that? Very bad advertising on Mobil's part and I'm sure they did not expect any group to be doing this type of specific analysis for any particular vehicle like we are doing. The oil may be good, but they need someone to review how they market their merchandise so they don't appear so wishywashy.
 

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Jim L. said:
Hello Arteegee,

The 0W30 is a safe alternative for the 5W20.

AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil can be used during break-in trouble free. In fact, vehicles such as Dodge Viper and Chevrolet Corvette come factory filled with synthetic oil.

As far as the warranty... Manufacturers’ warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service Classifications, for example, SJ/CF. (AMSOIL lubricants meet the current API Service requirements and, thus, are perfectly suited for use in any new vehicle without affecting the validity of the new vehicle warranty.)

Amsoil synthetic lubricants do not void warranties. The Magnuson-Moss Federal Warranty Act
of 1975 clearly explains warranty obligations and duties of all parties involved
I have parsed the above message and left the parts I want to respond to.

I have no interest in Amsoil, or any other oil company. I'm a retired guy so it's not to my benefit whatever you buy. And no, I'm not retired from an oil company.

#1 The claim, "The 0W30 is a safe alternative for the 5W20.". My position is that it's not for us to decide. I personally believe that 0W30 may be acceptable in the winter, but a zero weight oil is too light for the summer. It may be perfectly safe, or it may not be. Honda gave us the opinion of their engineers in the Owners Manual and none of us here are qualified to dispute that in any absolute terms.

#2 The statement, "AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil can be used during break-in trouble free. In fact, vehicles such as Dodge Viper and Chevrolet Corvette come factory filled with synthetic oil.". Again, this is not for us to decide. Honda tells us synthetic is fine, but there are vehicles that recommend against synthetic for certain periods of time. Blanket statements like the above should be ignored.

Yes, the Dodge Viper and Chevrolet Corvette (along with many other vehicles) come with factory fill of synthetic oil. None that I know of come with any Amsoil product as a factory fill. Personally I would lose respect for any company that used such products and recommended them.

#3 An important one, "As far as the warranty... Manufacturers’ warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service Classifications, for example, SJ/CF. (AMSOIL lubricants meet the current API Service requirements and, thus, are perfectly suited for use in any new vehicle without affecting the validity of the new vehicle warranty.)".

An extremely deceptive and dangerous statement... typical of an Amsoil brainwashing job. Most manufacturer warranties not only tell you to use oil meeting certain API Service Classifications they also REQUIRE that you use API Certified oil (yes Honda is one of them). Some Amsoil products are API Certified, but most are not. These products are not acceptable to use under the Honda warranty. Amsoil does their very best to evade and avoid this issue, but facts are facts. I only deal with facts.

#4 Wrong again, "Amsoil synthetic lubricants do not void warranties. The Magnuson-Moss Federal Warranty Act of 1975 clearly explains warranty obligations and duties of all parties involved". Let's get this straight once and for all. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act protects consumers from being forced to purchase manufacturer brand name products. An example... let's say Honda used Honda brand spark plugs in the engine, but you switch out and use Champion spark plugs that met all OEM specifications. You then have a plugged fuel injector. Honda can't say "we cancel the warranty on your engine because you didn't use Honda spark plugs". They can deny warranty coverage if you use aftermarket items, even if they meet all OEM specifications, and the failure can be directly attributed to the aftermarket product.

Now let's take the example one step further... you install Super-Hot-Fire spark plugs that are hotter than the OEM plugs because you think you'll get better fuel mileage and the company has a web site saying that their plugs meet OEM specifications and the plugs will last one million miles. You end up with a hole burned in a piston and that causes other damage as a result. Does the Magnuson-Moss act apply? No. The spark plugs may have met OEM specifications, but they were the wrong heat range. Honda does not have to repair the engine under warranty. It would be up to you to go after the Super-Hot-Fire spark plug company for the repair costs. Even if Super-Hot-Fire tells you they have a 100% warranty you may find that it's very difficult to collect from them.

So how does this apply to Amsoil? Many of the Amsoil products are not API Certified. Honda requires you to use API Certified oil. If you use a non-certified Amsoil product and have an oil related failure Honda does not have to cover the repairs under warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does not apply since you failed to use an oil that met the manufacturer specifications. It does not matter if Amsoil claims that they "meet" certain API specifications... meeting specifications is not certification. So if you use it and have a failure you will have to rely on Amsoil picking up the bill. Ever wonder how many times they've paid off on such claims? I don't want to be the one in the middle trying to find out.

Amsoil may make some good products (we really don't know since the fail to subject themselves to industry standard testing), but the fact is they are extremely deceptive in their advertising, and intentionally mislead people into believing things that just aren't true.

I don't care if it's Amsoil, or Golden Goddess or any other brand of motor oil. Do not use it if it does not meet the proper viscosity, API Service Classification, and has the API Certified starburst on the bottle.

As for a super fine oil filter.... Amsoil doesn't make oil filters. There's more to a filter than how well it can filter. We have to watch oil pressure drop, bypass regulation, and many other factors.

When you hear these snake oil claims that you can go 25,000 miles on an oil change or never change your oil filter RUN THE OTHER WAY.

-Joe
 
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