Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey Ridgeline Owners,

A lowly Odyssey owner here asking y’all for some advice. I’ve thrown this problem out on two separate Odyssey forums (OdyClub and OdysseyOwnersClub), but they don’t seem to have much traffic and I’ve gotten very minimal feedback. Figured that I’d give it a shot here since this site seems a bit more active and the Odyssey and Ridgeline drivetrains are essentially the same.

Have a 2007 EX-L with 155,000 miles. Engine recently developed a knocking sound. Discovered that the timing belt tensioner actuator had seized and was no longer providing the required tension. This was confirmed when I changed the timing belt (only 50,000 miles overdue) along with associated pulleys and such. After putting it all back together, the knocking is gone, but engine had a bit of a stumble at idle and the CEL was flashing. The code was P0305 for misfire on #5 cylinder. (There was also code P0A15 for the engine mount control; but that was there before the timing belt change so I doubt it has anything to do with the new misfire codes.) Swapped ignitor coil and spark plug with another cylinder with no change in symptoms or codes.

Continued to drive it since the engine seems to run fine and no flashing CEL as long as RPMs are always held above 900 RPM. If allowed to fall to normal idle (650 – 700) for more than a few seconds, that is when problem presents itself.

After having driven about 60 miles over a couple days, checked the codes again. This time getting more misfire codes of P0300, P0303, P0304, P0305, and P0306. Thinking that I had possibly installed the timing belt a tooth off, I did it again. First, I compared the new to the old belts (I had marked the old before removal, and marked the new prior to install). Next, I reinstalled the new belt while double checking (actually triple or quadruple checking) every step in the factory service manual. This was all to no avail, everything is still as it was following the first belt change. Still have same symptoms of stumbling at idle, flashing CEL, and misfire code P0305. (That was read immediately following reassembly. Guessing that other misfire codes are probably present now that it was driven a few miles.) Just a thought, an odd part of all this is that with all the misfiring going on, there are no codes for cylinders #1 or #2.

The one person that responded to my other pleas for assistance suggested the following items be checked: valve lash adjustment, compression test, vacuum test, spark plugs, EGR valve, catalytic converters, and intake manifold ports. These are some known issues in the Odyssey community. However, I rather doubt that it is any of those items because I never even had a hint of this problem prior to the timing belt change. Don't yet know what it is, but it would certainly be a rather crazy coincidence that any one of those mentioned items just started causing problems immediately upon changing the timing belt.


Soooo…, any suggestions? Anybody else run into this before? Barring any useful information or magical fix, my next step is to reinstall the old timing belt and see if that changes anything.

Thanks for reading my rather long post!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Re: Timing belt replacement and misfires

Not the RL but I have had those codes on the Civic.
After replacing all coils and plugs to no avail it turned out to be one of the cylinders was filling with a couple drips of anti freeze. The head gasket was ground and haven't had any issues since.


This only occurred when the engine was cold, rough idle, rough start. After the engine warmed up the leak went away, expanded enough to not cause issues.

Right at start up have someone check the exhaust coming out. White puff probably means head gasket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
682 Posts
Re: Timing belt replacement and misfires

is it possible the original belt jumped a tooth? doesn't sound right, but since none of the codes were present then, it's something that happened when you changed everything.

alternatively:
original belt - #1
1st replacement - #2
2nd replacement - #3

now you say you did the timing belt again, and matched the belts up (3-2), but if the original change (1-2) was a tooth off, then (2-3) would be off as well.

i'd pull it back apart and align the pulleys however the factory tells you to (back in the day we had a wheel and some alignment marks to do timing chains... lol)


alternate #2: firing order, did you put the plug wires back correctly? only reason i ask is because i've messed the order up and it did the same thing, but this was on a '77 500 cubic inch (that's 8.1 litre for the metric heads.. lol) caddy engine

other than that, it might be dealer time..

good luck
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 Ridgeline RTS in Billet Silver Metallic
Joined
·
22,588 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thank you all for your advice. I will address all input.

First, do not believe that it is a head gasket issue. Have not lost any coolant, no white puff on start-up, and there was no evidence of this misfire problem until the timing belt change.

Second is the timing belt jumping a tooth. Do not believe that this happened because until the belt was changed, the engine was running fine (albeit a bit noisy) with no misfire codes. There are only two belts, the original and the replacement. When mentioned that did the belt change a second time, should have specified that I just removed and reinstalled the replacement belt while verifying every step. As for the plug wires, can’t be that because the plugs were not touched until after the problem had already surfaced. Also, it would be pretty hard to connect the plug wires incorrectly since the wires going to the individual ignitors have very limited movement coming out of the wire harness. And the dealer is the very last resort, possibly even less desirable than just running it off a cliff. Have experience with several different dealers due to a few warranty work issues; every one of them would do better to fire the current service department employees and replace them with teams of trained monkeys. (Don’t mean to offend anyone, this is just based on my personal experiences. I’m sure that there is a decent dealer service department out there somewhere. I just haven’t seen it.)

The referenced TSB for Pilots with VCM engine speaks of adjusting the valves and performing the crankshaft position sensor (CKP) learn procedure. HIDridgline says that it sounds like a faulty crank shaft position sensor. We may be on to something here. Did not replace or even disconnect connector from the CKP, did however unmount it and move it out of the way in order to clean up some leaked power steering fluid. Don’t know if that would require performing the learn procedure, but I will give it a shot prior to diving into the timing belt yet again.

As for more advice to adjust the valves, I will certainly do so, but I am now thinking that my more pressing problem of misfires is either a bad timing belt or CKP.

And finally, I see that my post has been relegated from “Problems and Issues” to “Other Cars.” Hope that I didn’t bother anyone by putting my lowly Odyssey up on your mighty Ridgeline forums. Figured that it wouldn’t be an issue for this particular problem since Honda used the same engine and transmission in both vehicles.

Thank you all for your time and advice. I will continue to update as I proceed. (Hate it when someone, especially a newbie, puts up a post asking for help, and then just disappears without any follow-up.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,766 Posts
(Hate it when someone, especially a newbie, puts up a post asking for help, and then just disappears without any follow-up.)
EXACTLY!!!

But anyways..my idea is something that is related to timing is funky...or atleast something that translates timing to computer. Crank sensor could be the problem.

I dont believe it is mechanical(jumped tooth etc)

My first step would be to check crank sensor per service manual/adjust valves, then reinstall timing belt while putting the gears etc in the right place instead of matching up marks from timing belt.
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 Ridgeline RTS in Billet Silver Metallic
Joined
·
22,588 Posts
And finally, I see that my post has been relegated from “Problems and Issues” to “Other Cars.” Hope that I didn’t bother anyone by putting my lowly Odyssey up on your mighty Ridgeline forums. Figured that it wouldn’t be an issue for this particular problem since Honda used the same engine and transmission in both vehicles.

Thank you all for your time and advice. I will continue to update as I proceed. (Hate it when someone, especially a newbie, puts up a post asking for help, and then just disappears without any follow-up.)
Not relegated, simply moved to what I thought was more appropriate since you have an Odyssey and not a RL. ;)

Thanks for following up with your post. It will be good to hear what you find.

Regarding the valve lash adjustment, I don't know that's related at all to your present issue. But with the miles on your Oddy, I think it wise to check the clearances, especially on the exhaust valves. And especially since you appear to have the expertise to DIY this work.

Speaking of which, does the Odyssey share a similar radiator design to the RL and Pilot?

http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/71-problems-issues/53921-pictures-corroded-rusted-radiator-fittings.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I'm having the same issue with my RL. Took it in to the shop to replace the timing belt and now it starts rough. After a few days it I get a P0301 or P0306, the next day almost all the cylinders have a misfire code. Have you figured out the issue for your Ody?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Update -

Sorry that I haven’t been back here with an update for a bit. Between working, having three kids under the age of ten, and messing with the broken-down POS Odyssey, there’s not a lot of time left for updates.

With me still being so certain that the problem was directly related to something touched during the timing belt change, I pulled things apart again and inspected the CKP sensor. There was a slight build-up of residue that appeared to be rubbery dust sticking to the pickup area of the sensor. Cleaned off the sensor and checked the connector, but engine still throwing P0305 and P0A15. Next, reinstalled the original timing belt, yet still P0305 and P0A15. At that point, I was finally somewhat convinced that the problem was not necessarily a direct result of the timing belt change.

I next did a compression check, looks like I found the problem. Five of six cylinders were at 235 +/- 5 psi; but cylinder #5 was all way back 170 psi. Putting a squirt of oil into the cylinder brought it up to 190 psi. (Factory manual states minimum of 135 psi, with no more than 28 psi variance between any cylinder.)

Hoping that maybe a valve was hanging up, checked clearances; all were either right on or about 0.001 inch loose. Another indicator of a problem was oil inside the air plenum when getting down to the valves. Replaced the spark plugs hoping that new plugs might be able to overcome the low cylinder, it didn’t.

So, as things now stand, at a minimum there is a leaking head gasket. But more likely is any or all of the following: damaged rings, piston, and/or cylinder.

Any recommendations from anyone? Replacing head gaskets on this doesn’t look like it will be as much of a challenge as others I have done. But since the problem will most likely be more extensive than that, has anyone out there ever pulled a piston on one of these while the engine remains in place?

It is still just very odd that there was no indication at all of this problem until immediately following the timing belt change. Also, I am just rather frustrated that a catastrophic engine failure has occurred at only 155k miles. I thought that Hondas were supposed to be better than that.

Thanks for reading and any recommendations that are offered!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,620 Posts
Well I'm thinking you have good news & bad news (maybe):

The good news is that what I suspect is less expensive than your worst case anticipations.
The bad news is that it's more expensive than just replacing a blown head gasket.

I believe it's possible you have a familiar, but not real common problem that plagued a few RLs as reported here on ROC. That would be one generally referred to here as "Cyl#4 & Cyl#5" problem. Typical symptoms include loose plug & bad misfire.... on rare occasion leading to total engine failure (new block or rebuild required). BUT many here, including myself, believe the root of all of these is a cracked head.... as has been demonstrated on some of these reported cases.

So the good news is two-fold (if you have this problem): 1) Replacing a head is a lot cheaper than dealing with damaged lower end (pistons, cylinder walls, etc.), which you are worried about; and 2) Since you seem to have discovered this fairly early, you don't seem to have yet suffered those lower end issues that could eventually develop.

Do a search for "cyl #4" or similar... maybe even "loose spark plugs".... you should find a string of threads with info on this subject.

Good Luck getting squared away.


(here's one to start with.... one of the threads you'll find has pictures of the crack in the head, which is near where spark plug hole is IIRC)

http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/71-problems-issues/123705-06-rts-cylinder-four-issue.html
 

·
Super Moderator
2006 Ridgeline RTS in Steel Blue
Joined
·
7,262 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Thanks much for the input. Haven't had a chance yet to read through everything, but I will. Specially want to see if these problems would also explain the oil in the air plenum. Only experience that I've ever had (on another vehicle) with oil getting into the air intake was caused by blow-by from a badly worn piston and rings.

Don't recall seeing these particular issues on the Odyssey forums, but things are somewhat dead over there. Posted my update to both RL and Ody forums at the same time; two RL forum members provided info in under an hour, whereas the Ody forum has come up dry even after 12 hours. (You RL folks are a helpful bunch, even though I've been shunned for having an Ody instead of an RL.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,620 Posts
.............You RL folks are a helpful bunch, even though I've been shunned for having an Ody instead of an RL.
Stay back ye Odyssey heathen........>:)


And........ scanning back quickly, I don't see that you ever mentioned what year your Odyssey is. ??? What say ye?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Odyssey is a 2007 EX-L. (Mentioned that in very first post, but since y'all be helping me out, this Ody heathen will answer your questions.) It has the i-VTEC engine with VCM that shuts down the rear bank during low-power requirement level cruising. (Havent researched enough to see if the RL uses the same engine.) Back when I first purchased the beast, I remember reading that Honda was having problem with Ody transmissions, so for 2007 they supposedly started using the same transmission as what was in the RL.

Speaking of answering questions, I have neglected to answer Speedlever's question about whether or not Odys share a similar radiator (problematic) design to the RL and Pilot. I am not sure. I do not recall seeing anything about radiator problems on the Ody site. I will take a close look at mine the next time that I'm crawling around underneath. (Although I shouldn't bother since speedlever is the one that relegated (yes, RELEGATED) me all the way out here in "Other Cars." I mean, sheesh, the Ody and RL are pretty much brothers under the skin. But whatever, I'm ok with it all.....)
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 Ridgeline RTS in Billet Silver Metallic
Joined
·
22,588 Posts
Not that you carry a grudge or anything. :D

No, the J35 engine in the RL is not the same one as in the Oddy. The first gen RL does not (thankfully!) have VCM. And even though the J35 in the 2006-2008 RL and the J35 in the 2006-2008 Pilot share the same designation (J35A9), there are differences on the internals, per those here who are in the know.

I believe the J35 engine with VCM for the 2005+ Odyssey is the J35A7.

At least, if this wiki is to be believed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,620 Posts
So yeah .... thanks for the refresh on model year. That puts you in the right vintage to suspect the cracked head issue. And while the RL engines are not identical... they are certainly very similar, and may in fact share common heads, or at least common head castings. I'm not going to do that research.... but be advised you are certainly at least in the neighborhood to want to address that question (cracked head or not?).

Good Luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
You are correct about the J35A7. Recognized it soon as I saw it, was just too lazy to look it up on my own. The "lesser" Odys had the J35A6. (Read lesser as less parts to fail, less complicated engine management system, leading to less problems to deal with, all for less mileage of probably only 0.1 mpg.) I have the instructions for disabling the VCM; plan to tackle that just as soon as I get this other problem resolved.

Cracked heads, yippee! Something else to investigate.

I'm really not too sure about Honda quality. Since buying the Ody new, have had the following problems:
--Transmission leak at only couple thousand miles. Warranty repair.
--TPMS fault indicator intermittently lighting since new. Looked at by three different dealers. Parts replaced, system reprogrammed, all to no avail. Have learned to ignore it.
--Transmission problem of hunting for correct gear. First had to convince service department that there was a problem, that it was a known problem, and even had to produce my own copy of the technical service bulletin covering the problem. One dealer reprogrammed the pcm, that worked for a short time, then another dealer had to replace the torque converter. (Incidentally, the large plastic under engine/transmission splash guard fell off while driving a few weeks later. I'm sure that was just a coincidence.)
--Power steering pump working only marginally and leaking due to failed o-ring.
--Something loose in front suspension that haven't diagnosed yet.
--Three or four recall repairs that should probably be performed, but can't stand dealers and how they screw up two things while trying to fix one.
--And now this essentially catastrophic engine failure.

That may all sound rather petty for a nine-year old 155k-miles vehicle, but I am comparing it to other much less trouble-prone vehicles that I have had. And they were all run much more harshly than the Ody.
 

·
Super Moderator
2008 Ridgeline RTS in Billet Silver Metallic
Joined
·
22,588 Posts
Any mfg can build a stinker. It's been my experience that Honda and Toyota build far fewer than other mfgs. As usual, ymmv.

Sad to hear all those issues you have had with your Oddy. It happens, even with Honda.

My RL has not been problem free, but it has been reliable thus far. I consider the Alabama build quality of my 2006 Pilot superior to the Alliston build quality of my 2008 RL.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top