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I'll refer back to post #86......how fast and ambient temp. 2" taller (than stock) tires are a performance killer. I thought A/T type tires was mainly about the tread pattern, no?🤦‍♂️
 

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I'll refer back to post #86......how fast and ambient temp. 2" taller (than stock) tires are a performance killer. I thought A/T type tires was mainly about the tread pattern, no?🤦‍♂️
Nope, definitely not... Have you looked at the tires on a real off-road vehicle like a Jeep Wrangler or a new Ford Bronco?

Everything you wanted to know about tire size:
 

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Actually, I basically did have a gun to my head when I bought it.... see my comment above. The only thing I tow is a boat and trailer, which together weigh 3900 lb. Yet in the summer (like the time you use a boat) I've actually had the dash start flashing red telling me "Transmission Hot". I'm way below the tow limit, and that is inexcusable in a truck.

The way to build a unibody truck is the way it seems Ford is building the new little Maverick Pickup. Using the hardened platform from the baby Bronco (Bronco Sport) that in the Badlands edition comes with skid plates, and GOAT-mode AWD (Go Over Any Terrain). It can truly go off-road, and has respectable ground clearance. I'm waiting to see what the towing capacity is.

I put a 2" lift kit on the Ridgeline and decent all terrain tires. The 2" lift only gave it the same ground clearance as a true "truck" yet I'm having rubbing issues with tires (they're only 265/65 R18).. Why would Honda design a truck that can't take about the smallest size in all terrain tires?

My point is, if Honda did a little work, they could build a truck that could sell exponentially better than the Ridgeline does. However it seems their are more interested in "gimmicky" features like "truck bed audio" than in features that allow you to use it as a "truck" rather than a Pilot w a bed on the back.
You might not want to use the Bronco Sport as a comparison with regard to overheating:


Even the Badlands version with the liquid-cooled PTU overheated at one point.
 

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Hum.......Is a Ridgeline a “real off-road vehicle” when you add too tall tires with aggressive tread? Again, post #86 and #101.
 

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You might not want to use the Bronco Sport as a comparison with regard to overheating:


Even the Badlands version with the luquid-cooled PTU overheated at one point.
It would be a hoot to see them run a Ridgeline over the same course! 😆😆😆
I referred to the transmission overheating while towing a boat ON THE ROAD
I mentioned the Bronco Sport as it’s a unibody and the Badlands version is truly off-road capable (unlike the Ridgeline which has the ground clearance of a minivan) The Badlands w GOAT mode was so impressive to the point that Car & Driver was duly impressed by it.. Didn’t overheat on C&D..
Tested: 2021 Ford Bronco Sport Badlands Earns the Bronco Name

Meanwhile, Honda was sued over the first gen Ridgeline as they advertised them as 4WD when they weren’t (you actually see some of the first gens w the 4WD badge on the tailgate... 😆😆😆)
 

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It would be a hoot to see them run a Ridgeline over the same course! 😆😆😆
I referred to the transmission overheating while towing a boat ON THE ROAD
I mentioned the Bronco Sport as it’s a unibody and the Badlands version is truly off-road capable (unlike the Ridgeline which has the ground clearance of a minivan) The Badlands w GOAT mode was so impressive to the point that Car & Driver was duly impressed by it.. Didn’t overheat on C&D..
Tested: 2021 Ford Bronco Sport Badlands Earns the Bronco Name

Meanwhile, Honda was sued over the first gen Ridgeline as they advertised them as 4WD when they weren’t (you actually see some of the first gens w the 4WD badge on the tailgate... 😆😆😆)
If I were you, I'd do a 3x DnF on your trans and consider adding a bigger cooler.

My point wasn't off-road-worthiness, but rather that all of these AWD systems are subject to overheating, regardless of manufacturer. If I were doing technical offroading or trying to pull tree stumps, I'd choose the traditional 4wd system with a hi/lo transfer case. For just about everything else, I'd choose AWD.
 

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Honda didn't build the Ridgeline for the truck crowd. Ford has that market sewed up. They built it for Joe Homeowner and it excels in that area.

I agree with your criticisms of overheating trannies when towing in spec. That is inexcusable. I also don't like the reduced GC, but Honda built it for the homeowner and keeping it lowered helped the fuel efficiency, I'm sure.

All that being said, the Ridgeline is remarkably capable off road and especially in the snow and sand, when driven with common sense. Check out this thread from our Russian friends for some eye-opening off roading.

 

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Meanwhile, Honda was sued over the first gen Ridgeline as they advertised them as 4WD when they weren’t (you actually see some of the first gens w the 4WD badge on the tailgate... 😆😆😆)
I don't think I'm familiar with that lawsuit. Do you have a reference link?

Here at the ROC we all know the Ridgeline is AWD even though the badge on the tailgate says 4wd. That being said, my old 4WD T100 was really 2WD... one wheel per axle since I didn't have lockers on it. So I'm not sure where that suit would go anyway.
 
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dude that's a terrible way to lose someone in crisis. I get it that the Ranger had to go. It's also surprising that it's probably the best towing rated mid size truck with the smallest engine.
It's a towing thread not a n off road thread. Most off reading people do is dirt roads. But like these guys

 

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If I were you, I'd do a 3x DnF on your trans and consider adding a bigger cooler.

My point wasn't off-road-worthiness, but rather that all of these AWD systems are subject to overheating, regardless of manufacturer. If I were doing technical offroading or trying to pull tree stumps, I'd choose the traditional 4wd system with a hi/lo transfer case. For just about everything else, I'd choose AWD.
With the new 4WD systems, you can have the best of both. The 4WD system on my 2019 Ranger Lariat basically acted as an AWD system until you needed 4WD. Interestingly, some of Audi’s AWD systems are based on modified 4WD systems.

which begs the question further of why Honda can’t belly-up to the bar and build a real truck. Especially considering the price they charge for the Ridgeline. Is it really that hard to design it properly?

if they did, I could see their sales being orders-of-magnitude higher than they are. But for some strange reason they refuse to do the work. 🤷🏼‍♂️

instead they do cosmetic changes like replacing the Pilot nose with a more “truck-like” front end but w no other changes.
 

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dude that's a terrible way to lose someone in crisis. I get it that the Ranger had to go. It's also surprising that it's probably the best towing rated mid size truck with the smallest engine.
It's a towing thread not a n off road thread. Most off reading people do is dirt roads. But like these guys

I’m sorry but a truck that is 4WD/AWD should be able to go off-road. Instead the Ridgeline has ground clearance that a Subaru Crosstrek can beat by an inch! Embarrassing! 🤦🏼‍♂️

mewnwhile, if Honda gives it a tow rating of 5,000 lb., it should be able to tow a 3900 boat/trailer wo the transmission overheating! That’s simply pathetic.
 

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With the new 4WD systems, you can have the best of both. The 4WD system on my 2019 Ranger Lariat basically acted as an AWD system until you needed 4WD. Interestingly, some of Audi’s AWD systems are based on modified 4WD systems.

which begs the question further of why Honda can’t belly-up to the bar and build a real truck. Especially considering the price they charge for the Ridgeline. Is it really that hard to design it properly?

if they did, I could see their sales being orders-of-magnitude higher than they are. But for some strange reason they refuse to do the work. 🤷🏼‍♂️

instead they do cosmetic changes like replacing the Pilot nose with a more “truck-like” front end but w no other changes.
There almost was no G2 Ridgeline. The only reason we got it is because it shares a platform with the MDX, Pilot, Passport and Odyssey. This is why Honda can sell the Ridgeline for SO LITTLE MONEY. Think about that for a minute.

Look at the full-size trucks. Ford, GM and Stellantis sell a LOT of them. They sell enough that they can afford to refresh them and update them significantly every five years or so. They make a handsome profit on those trucks, so that is where they put their R&D.

The Big3 don't want mid-size trucks. Why? Because a mid-size truck costs the same to bring to market as a full-size truck, the same R&D, the same tooling costs, design costs, labor (the biggest cost), etc., with the only difference being a negligible amount of raw materials. However, people expect to pay a lot less for a mid-size truck because, well, it's smaller and not quite as capable. Additionally, the mfrs sell a lot fewer of those trucks than they do full-size.

Therefore, the return on investment of mid-size trucks is a lot lower than full-size trucks. The Big3 don't want to make them, but the market wants them, so we have them. Along the way, the mfrs have to cut corners, giving the mid-size trucks cheap interiors, few options and updates few and far between.

The exception here is the Tacoma. It sells in large numbers solely on reputation. It's a cash cow for Toyota because they have to update it very little to keep up with their competition.

Now, take a look at Honda's business model. Build a truck on a shared platform to split the costs of bringing that platform to market. That platform is shared among five vehicles, some of them quite popular, along with a powertrain that is shared among an even larger number of vehicles. That is how Honda can cut costs and bring a pickup to market for what it costs, and with ride, handling, driveability, safety and class that blows their competition away.

Now imagine if they wanted to bring a truck to market that is primarily RWD and has a hi/lo transfer case. That would require R&D for a whole new powertrain, chassis design, etc., and for what return? They sell 100k more trucks? What if that doesn't pay for the R&D alone? What if the brodozer crowd still screams "it's not body-on-frame!"? Does Honda spend more $$ to develop a BoF truck? How many more will they sell by doing so? And then the brodozer crowd will scream "Jap truck, buy American!" even though the Ridgeline is already one of the most American trucks you can get. And where will Honda build these? They cannot build the current Ridgelines fast enough as it is.

Let's put you in charge. You need to sell this idea to the board members at Corporate Honda. What would you do?

Remember, Honda builds a full line of offroad motorcycles, ATVs and SxS vehicles if you want to go off-road, and far beyond where the pickup trucks can go. Where are the Ford/Chevy UTVs?
 

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I’m sorry but a truck that is 4WD/AWD should be able to go off-road. Instead the Ridgeline has ground clearance that a Subaru Crosstrek can beat by an inch! Embarrassing! 🤦🏼‍♂️

mewnwhile, if Honda gives it a tow rating of 5,000 lb., it should be able to tow a 3900 boat/trailer wo the transmission overheating! That’s simply pathetic.
I try to be nice to you, but all you do is act no better than a TROLL.
 

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Meanwhile, Honda was sued over the first gen Ridgeline as they advertised them as 4WD when they weren’t (you actually see some of the first gens w the 4WD badge on the tailgate... 😆😆😆)
I would be very surprised if 4WD is a legal term. I would think the average vehicle owner could not tell the difference between 4WD and AWD. Do you have a citation to support your statement?
 

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I would be very surprised if 4WD is a legal term. I would think the average vehicle owner could not tell the difference between 4WD and AWD. Do you have a citation to support your statement?
It’s called misleading advertising. 4WD implies capabilities that an AWD does not have.

This is one of the best explanations, but there are many others.
 

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I think Farther's point was that most 4wd vehicles aren't 4wd, either. The vast majority are 2wd, maybe 3wd in some situations if they have a good limited-slip diff, definitely 3wd if they have a locker, and 4wd IF they have TWO lockers. Relatively very few trucks come from the factory with two lockers, and they are high-priced packages.

So, what exactly is 4WD? What exactly is AWD? They can both be many things, and even cross the line in many areas.

Here is a detailed writeup:

The AWD system found in the Ridgeline is one of the best available, unless you're using it to pull stumps.
 

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There almost was no G2 Ridgeline. The only reason we got it is because it shares a platform with the MDX, Pilot, Passport and Odyssey. This is why Honda can sell the Ridgeline for SO LITTLE MONEY. Think about that for a minute.

Look at the full-size trucks. Ford, GM and Stellantis sell a LOT of them. They sell enough that they can afford to refresh them and update them significantly every five years or so. They make a handsome profit on those trucks, so that is where they put their R&D.

The Big3 don't want mid-size trucks. Why? Because a mid-size truck costs the same to bring to market as a full-size truck, the same R&D, the same tooling costs, design costs, labor (the biggest cost), etc., with the only difference being a negligible amount of raw materials. However, people expect to pay a lot less for a mid-size truck because, well, it's smaller and not quite as capable. Additionally, the mfrs sell a lot fewer of those trucks than they do full-size.

Therefore, the return on investment of mid-size trucks is a lot lower than full-size trucks. The Big3 don't want to make them, but the market wants them, so we have them. Along the way, the mfrs have to cut corners, giving the mid-size trucks cheap interiors, few options and updates few and far between.

The exception here is the Tacoma. It sells in large numbers solely on reputation. It's a cash cow for Toyota because they have to update it very little to keep up with their competition.

Now, take a look at Honda's business model. Build a truck on a shared platform to split the costs of bringing that platform to market. That platform is shared among five vehicles, some of them quite popular, along with a powertrain that is shared among an even larger number of vehicles. That is how Honda can cut costs and bring a pickup to market for what it costs, and with ride, handling, driveability, safety and class that blows their competition away.

Now imagine if they wanted to bring a truck to market that is primarily RWD and has a hi/lo transfer case. That would require R&D for a whole new powertrain, chassis design, etc., and for what return? They sell 100k more trucks? What if that doesn't pay for the R&D alone? What if the brodozer crowd still screams "it's not body-on-frame!"? Does Honda spend more $$ to develop a BoF truck? How many more will they sell by doing so? And then the brodozer crowd will scream "Jap truck, buy American!" even though the Ridgeline is already one of the most American trucks you can get. And where will Honda build these? They cannot build the current Ridgelines fast enough as it is.

Let's put you in charge. You need to sell this idea to the board members at Corporate Honda. What would you do?

Remember, Honda builds a full line of offroad motorcycles, ATVs and SxS vehicles if you want to go off-road, and far beyond where the pickup trucks can go. Where are the Ford/Chevy UTVs?
The Ford UTV is the awesome new Bronco! 😆

But seriously, Ford does build the Ranger, which is the direct competitor especially in the Lariat trim level, to the Ridgeline. Considering Ford is going to revive the small pickup market with the new Maverick, I’d say they’re plenty interested in building more sizes of truck than the F-150.

As far as Americans not want to buy Japanese trucks, please explain the sales of Tacoma?

Your view of 4WD systems is pretty archaic.. like somehow 4WD got stuck in the 1990’s. Modern 4WD systems can basically operate like AWD on the road and 4WD off-road. Some of Audi’s AWD systems are actually modified 4WD systems.

My point has always been that Honda could have a decent chunk of the market. But to grab a larger amount of sales, they need to incorporate more capabilities that are the reason why ppl buy trucks.

I always hear “but it does what most people need”.That’s a tall order.. to sell a product ppl “need” vs what they want.

There are great features in the Ridgeline in terms of convenience, but it doesn’t make up for its short-comings.
 

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I think Farther's point was that most 4wd vehicles aren't 4wd, either. The vast majority are 2wd, maybe 3wd in some situations if they have a good limited-slip diff, definitely 3wd if they have a locker, and 4wd IF they have TWO lockers. Relatively very few trucks come from the factory with two lockers, and they are high-priced packages.

So, what exactly is 4WD? What exactly is AWD? They can both be many things, and even cross the line in many areas.

Here is a detailed writeup:

The AWD system found in the Ridgeline is one of the best available, unless you're using it to pull stumps.
I don’t think it can do this... if it could, the trim levels that come with AWD would come with skid plates standard, the way 4WD trucks do.

I can’t even buy skid plates from Honda in the aftermarket..
411051
 

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It’s called misleading advertising. 4WD implies capabilities that an AWD does not have.

This is one of the best explanations, but there are many others.
So, I will ask once again. What do you have to support your statement that Honda was sued for having a 4WD badge on their vehicles?
 
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