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In my case, fluttering RPM's was fixed by an ATF fluid flush. I suggest doing an ATFx1 every other oil change on these transmissions (i.e. earlier than the maintenance schedule). The vibration/rumble when re-engaging throttle after a small decline was fixed by disabling the VCM using an aftermarket device. Finally, the dealer replacing the torque converter fixed neither of these issues (and wasted a perfectly good converter).
Thank you for the reply. I have the supplies to change my transmission fluid This weekend. Just hit 31,000 miles. Doing the rear diff as well. Bought the truck with 17,000 miles and unsure if it’s been done before.
 

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My flutter started around 20k, gradually got worse, went away immediately after I did a 3x flush myself at around 30k.
 

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2017 Honda Ridgeline RTL AWD
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So are there any other documented cases of this happening with later
model years? I own a 2019 and have just noticed the fluctuating Rpms at light throttle, even on flat rd, within the last week. It’s has verbatim the symptoms described in this thread.
The TSB wouldn’t apply tho, right? Shouldn’t I already have updated software?
How many miles do you have on your 2019? I had ~35k when I started to have the surging.
 

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I just hit 31,000 today. Based on reports from this forum guess I was about due haha.
What’s confusing to me is that the tsb from 2017 was supposed to prevent this; I assumed that later models would be excluded from this problem, but I’m guessing not. I appreciate y’all s feedback. Changing the fluid gives me some hope.
 

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Just coming back to update that my fluid change this past friday did in fact take care of the bouncing rpms and surging up hills. I actually only had time to do a flush and fill once so i was curious if it would take 2-3. I will probably do it again at my next oil change for good measure, but i'm pleased so far.

Additionally, approx. 4 quarts was drained, rather than the estimated 3.3 quarts so that seems to vary quite a bit.
 

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Just coming back to update that my fluid change this past friday did in fact take care of the bouncing rpms and surging up hills. I actually only had time to do a flush and fill once so i was curious if it would take 2-3. I will probably do it again at my next oil change for good measure, but i'm pleased so far.

Additionally, approx. 4 quarts was drained, rather than the estimated 3.3 quarts so that seems to vary quite a bit.
That's great to hear. My fluid always comes out with good color, no smell, and very little debris on the magnet, but there is definitely something amiss as the transmission wasn't liking it for some reason. I have never drained 4qts, I'm usually right around the 3.3. Did you measure it by what came out, or what you put back in? The stick can be hard to read with fresh oil.
 

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I have a 2018 pilot. At 395 miles about a week after I bought with 12 miles on it I had a transmission light pop up on dash. The car was jerking. Tech line said to replace valve body. I got my car back after 7 days in the shop.
At 618 miles, 2 days later something was leaking. Gasket was pinched when they did valve body so reinstalled.
6861 miles, another leak. Linear solenoid assembly. Gasket cracked and replaced.
23783 miles, felt like transmission is not shifting right. They said could be torque converter locking and unlocking. "This is normal" so no repairs
49975 miles, I brought in for same issue. It feels like its jerking around 2-3rd gear. At higher speeds it sounds like it needs to shift but doesnt. I have to let off the gas for it to shift.
They could feel judder in trans. Diagnosis was it will need software update and trans flush.

My question is, is this a powertrain warranty issue? They want to charge me $400 to update the software and flush my trans 3x.
I dont get if it's a software issue, why is that not warranty?

Any advise would be appreciated.
 

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Yes, transmission is covered by 60k drivetrain warranty. The software/flush is step 1 in the Judder diagnosis. Find another dealer service department as they all get paid the same rate by Honda to do this work.
 

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That's great to hear. My fluid always comes out with good color, no smell, and very little debris on the magnet, but there is definitely something amiss as the transmission wasn't liking it for some reason. I have never drained 4qts, I'm usually right around the 3.3. Did you measure it by what came out, or what you put back in? The stick can be hard to read with fresh oil.
I’m just basing it off my oil drain pan measurements. After drain, it was Filled up to the the 4 qt line on level concrete, I added approx 3.7 qts to the truck to be on the safe side and it’s showing close to halfway between holes on dipstick.
 

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Discussion Starter #210
My question is, is this a powertrain warranty issue? They want to charge me $400 to update the software and flush my trans 3x.
I dont get if it's a software issue, why is that not warranty?

Any advise would be appreciated.
The transmission itself is covered by the 5/60 Powertrain Limited Warranty. The following components are listed as covered in the Warranty Booklet: "Case and all internal parts, torque converter, transfer case and all internal parts, transmission/powertrain control module, seals and gaskets." (Note that software and fluid is not listed as covered.)

Software updates are covered by the 3/36 New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Side note: Software updates are not covered by Honda Care.

The fluid is not covered unless required as part of a covered repair.

With that said, the specific torque converter clutch judder issue addressed by TSBs 17-025 and 17-026 is covered for 8/80 - the TSB specifically states this. However, the dealer must be able to reproduce and capture the judder from the torque converter with a snapshot (an electronic recording of the vehicle's data); otherwise, Honda won't reimburse the dealer for the repair.
 

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The transmission itself is covered by the 5/60 Powertrain Limited Warranty. The following components are listed as covered in the Warranty Booklet: "Case and all internal parts, torque converter, transfer case and all internal parts, transmission/powertrain control module, seals and gaskets." (Note that software and fluid is not listed as covered.)

Software updates are covered by the 3/36 New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Side note: Software updates are not covered by Honda Care.

The fluid is not covered unless required as part of a covered repair.

With that said, the specific torque converter clutch judder issue addressed by TSBs 17-025 and 17-026 is covered for 8/80 - the TSB specifically states this. However, the dealer must be able to reproduce and capture the judder from the torque converter with a snapshot (an electronic recording of the vehicle's data); otherwise, Honda won't reimburse the dealer for the repair.
zroger73 is correct, however, please see a different dealer. You are within warranty and the software/flush is the first action Honda requires when addressing the TSB's noted (I've been through this drill and I was also over the 36k base warranty). Also, even if they were simply doing the software update and flush on your dime at retail, $400 for that is high (even for a dealer). Go somewhere else if you can. You can use any Honda certified repair facility (i.e. dealer) for warranty work, you are not required to use the dealer from which you bought the vehicle. Most service departments salivate when you bring a vehicle in with the Judder issue as they see dollar signs (1 flush fluid 2 software update 3 flush again 4 and possibly a torque converter, all on Honda's dime).
 

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Discussion Starter #212
zroger73 is correct, however, please see a different dealer. You are within warranty and the software/flush is the first action Honda requires when addressing the TSB's noted (I've been through this drill and I was also over the 36k base warranty). Also, even if they were simply doing the software update and flush on your dime at retail, $400 for that is high (even for a dealer). Go somewhere else if you can. You can use any Honda certified repair facility (i.e. dealer) for warranty work, you are not required to use the dealer from which you bought the vehicle. Most service departments salivate when you bring a vehicle in with the Judder issue as they see dollar signs (1 flush fluid 2 software update 3 flush again 4 and possibly a torque converter, all on Honda's dime).
Some dealers will prioritize customer-pay repairs and/or tell customers a repair isn't covered under warranty even when it is.

Why?

1. Not all states require automakers to reimburse dealers the same amount for warranty repairs as they charge for customer-pay repairs. Typically, these dealers make less than half as much on warranty repairs as they do on customer-pay repairs.

2. Warranty repairs are reimbursed at a fixed rate based on the job. Customer-pay repairs are billed by the hour, so the dealer can charge the customer as much as they want.
 

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Thanks @zroger73, I didn't know software updates were not covered but that makes sense as Hondacare only covers failed parts. It's a shame but I think that when you bring you car to the dealer, the first thing they think about is how much will I get paid to fix this? Then filter by warranty or not. It's all about the bottom line. If they can do brake jobs instead I bet they'll be eager to dismiss you. As a consumer, I'd like to know when the dealer feels it appropriate to hook up a scantool to get the snapshot. If the problem exists but is intermittent and doesn't show up at the dealer, the consumer is out of luck. This can not duplicate stuff is BS, there should be a way for the car to capture a problem so you don't have to rely on the dealer saying they could or could not duplicate. Fixing problems should't be controlled by the bottom line. As long as the RL goes down the road, from my experience the dealers aren't very cooperative with these driveability issues. It just seems risky to go past 3/36 with a problem car. Yes, in this case it's covered up to 80k but only if they get the snapshot. When will they hook up a scantool, that's what I want to know. Dealers have too much discretion.
 

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Thanks @zroger73, I didn't know software updates were not covered but that makes sense as Hondacare only covers failed parts. It's a shame but I think that when you bring you car to the dealer, the first thing they think about is how much will I get paid to fix this? Then filter by warranty or not. It's all about the bottom line. If they can do brake jobs instead I bet they'll be eager to dismiss you. As a consumer, I'd like to know when the dealer feels it appropriate to hook up a scantool to get the snapshot. If the problem exists but is intermittent and doesn't show up at the dealer, the consumer is out of luck. This can not duplicate stuff is BS, there should be a way for the car to capture a problem so you don't have to rely on the dealer saying they could or could not duplicate. Fixing problems should't be controlled by the bottom line. As long as the RL goes down the road, from my experience the dealers aren't very cooperative with these driveability issues. It just seems risky to go past 3/36 with a problem car. Yes, in this case it's covered up to 80k but only if they get the snapshot. When will they hook up a scantool, that's what I want to know. Dealers have too much discretion.
Memory is cheap and virtually all vehicles already contain enough of it to store at least a warranty lifetime of sensor readings. The problem for the automakers is that they might be on the hook for more warranty expense if vehicles logged transient or intermittent faults.
 

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noticed the judder on my 2017 Ridgeline RTL 59k miles. Took it to the dealer and mentioned the TSB #. Service advisor didn't think they would flush for free but I left it for a recalled fuel pump and asked them to look into it. Couple hours later both issues resolved with no charge. Thanks to all in this group that pointed in the right direction to get this fixed. I was about to start changing spark plugs.
 

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Memory is cheap and virtually all vehicles already contain enough of it to store at least a warranty lifetime of sensor readings. The problem for the automakers is that they might be on the hook for more warranty expense if vehicles logged transient or intermittent faults.
I am sure you already know about this, but for others. Early model Teslas are running out of memory.

 
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Took it in today and the dealer confirmed the surging problem and I believe implemented the TSB. I was told they needed to drain the transmission twice, then update the software. The strange part is they couldn't complete this in one day. Apparently the process requires sending a software report to Honda during the procedure, and by 3pm EST Honda corporate was no longer accepting electronic reports for the day. The dealer assures me Honda will be accepting reports in the morning and I'll have my truck back by tomorrow afternoon.

Not really a problem for my schedule, just kind of a strange process and a pretty early shutdown for Honda. I don't know if Honda is doing actual real time analysis of the reports, or if they are just tracking this problem closely for indications of a more serious problem. Hopefully whatever they do fixes the problem. I'll see if the dealer can tell me more when I pick up the truck.

MP
Unfortunately the judder/surging problem is back about 22 months and 20k miles after the TSB was implemented. I may have noticed it sooner, but I've been teleworking and the truck hasn't been driven much since February. Looks like I'll have to take it back in soon. I have a road trip coming up and don't want to deal with this the whole time.
 

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Unfortunately the judder/surging problem is back about 22 months and 20k miles after the TSB was implemented. I may have noticed it sooner, but I've been teleworking and the truck hasn't been driven much since February. Looks like I'll have to take it back in soon. I have a road trip coming up and don't want to deal with this the whole time.
Maybe it's the injectors, there was a guy that posted last week and took it for the trans and as it turns out a misfire was causing the judder.
 

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I've got a 2019 with 26K miles that I purchased 4 weeks ago that I took in to dealer today for the trans judder issue that has been occurring since the week I brought it home. Dealer verified judder on test drive and is "recommending" a trans flush to be paid by me for $132. Dealer said tech "did not find any bulletins related to 2019 model year," so that this point they "recommend at trans service." Since there is no TSB 17-025 or TSB 17-026 related to 2019 model years, am I out of luck trying to get this covered by Honda, even when I bought the vehicle as a CPO?
 
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