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Does anyone realistically expect a discount off MSRP for a new model entering the market?

Really?

I think when the Pilot was first introduced as a 2003 model, dealers were selling them for MSRP ++ for as long as the market would bear it.
 

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Does anyone realistically expect a discount off MSRP for a new model entering the market?

I think when the Pilot was first introduced as a 2003 model, dealers were selling them for MSRP ++ for as long as the market would bear it.
Yes, I most certainly do realistically expect a discount. Whether or not I would get one is a different story. Given how much profit dealers make and how many vehicles I've purchased well below MSRP in the past would make it very difficult for me to pay MSRP - let alone above MSRP. I realize that 100 years from now it won't make a difference, but in the here and now it does - at least to me.

Of all vehicles that sold at a premium, the one that sticks out in my mind to this day is the Chrysler PT Cruiser. When it was introduced, it was commanding thousands of dollars over MSRP. A PT Cruiser! 15 years later, they're at the bottom of the food chain. Nobody wants one. It's a car that begs to be offered for sale at a "we-tote-the-note" used car lot.
 

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Hard to believe the prices people are paying for this G2. I know it is nice and has state of the art tech, but prices are $13-14,000 over what I paid for my 2008 RTL w/o nav. I paid $33,000 for a new 2012 Tundra Crewmax 4-wheel drive. Without a trade-in or a substantial down payment, the monthly payments are nearly what I pay monthly for my home.

Even crazier, three years from now the used ones will still be commanding $35,000.
 

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Hard to believe the prices people are paying for this G2. I know it is nice and has state of the art tech, but prices are $13-14,000 over what I paid for my 2008 RTL w/o nav. I paid $33,000 for a new 2012 Tundra Crewmax 4-wheel drive. Without a trade-in or a substantial down payment, the monthly payments are nearly what I pay monthly for my home.

Even crazier, three years from now the used ones will still be commanding $35,000.
The G2 RTL is 36K. Not sure if we can say if the 2008 model is commensurate to the current RTL at that time. If telling me you paid 23K for it back then? Holy cow!!!!

Also, not sure about tundra. But you can still get an 4WD F150 2016 for 35K.

Maybe you got a great deal during the Great Recession, but the 34K Canyons/colorados are pieces of crap IMO compared to the G2 I test drove.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
RTL-E
Forest Mist Metallic
San Diego County (California)
Price before trade-in: $42,265
Trade-in allowance after above was $500 over Carmax offer ($7,000 for a 2006 R1 with navigation)

My experience in Southern California was that the norm among dealers was MSRP, plus $900 delivery charge, plus various unwanted extras ranging in cost from $200 to $2,700. I was pleased to pay MSRP. Many of the first cars that arrived in So Cal sold prior to or as they hit the lots. At the dealer I bought at, they got five and sold three within 24 hours (I know because I had to return the next day for something).

Whether the popularity of the truck holds at this level, no one knows. Future pricing will obviously be a function of popularity and availability.
 

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RTL_T
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I paid MSRP for mine, plus freight. But I got more than expected from my 2013 Ridgeline Sport on trade. I went in expecting to pay MSRP for the new truck, plus I expected to get about $3k less for my truck. Overall... pretty satisfied.

Oh yeah... I also got running boards, window tint and all weather mats for half price.
 

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I bought my RTL-T AWD without trade. 36,100 + 900 ?destination? +199 doc fee + 2,600 tax = 39.5ish OTD. Since I didn't have a trade I'm not sure if I got a good transaction overall. They had 4 on lot and sold the other 3 the same morning.
 

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Do you get a better "deal" if you have a trade-in or not? Do dealers give you a better deal if you finance vs. cash?
Trading is worse because they screw you twice instead of once.

Trading also clouds the useful meaning of all numbers involved because they often reduce one and add to the other for various reasons.

Trading allows the dealer to shift the profit they make away from the vehicle you're more worried about:

Customer 1 refuses to pay near, at, or above MSRP for the new vehicle, so the dealer "hides" their profit in the trade by giving less than they know they can.

Customer 2 refuses to accept less than a certain amount for their trade, so the dealer "hides" their profit in the new vehicle.

Customer 3 wants a discount on MSRP and a lot for their trade, so the dealer doesn't come off MSRP as much as they could and doesn't give as much for the trade as they could, which lessens the "hurt" on each vehicle to a level acceptable to the customer, but the sum of each screwing is still significant.

Allowing the dealer to handle financing further complicates things because they often get incentives from the lender that the customer can't see. For example, the lender might finance at 2.9% to the customer while only charging the dealer 1.9% this giving the dealer more profit.

Car buying and selling is equal parts science and art and risk. Getting the best deal requires a lot of research, knowledge, and experience. Car dealers receive regular training on how to extract the most profit from EVERY type of customer from the most gullible to the most intelligent - that includes YOU and ME. We all get screwed - just some of us get screwed less.

Those paying near MSRP or above with a trade-in who let the dealer handle financing get screwed the most.

The current strategy that seems to be effective for me is to offer "invoice" for the new vehicle (I let them keep holdback), ask KBB for my trade-in, and either bring my own financing or pay cash for any difference. I just keep contacting one dealer after another until I find one that accepts my offer like I did when I traded my '14 Ridgeline for the '16 CR-V I'm currently driving.

I would have a very difficult time paying MSRP for a new Ridgeline since that would be a first for me. Even though it wouldn't have a lien holder when I drove it home, I would still be remorseful for a while.
 

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If you know your numbers - fair price for the new vehicle and fair trade-in price for your trade-in - then there's no loss other than what you'll settle for. That said, your trade-in is always worth more in a private party sale than in a trade-in situation. You just have to do your homework.

Now, financing vs. cash I don't have any points of reference, sorry. Someone else will have to speak up there.

Also, dealers are willing to cut prices more when sales quotas and such are ending. Generally, last day of the month and last day of the year are two good days to buy.
 

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That said, your trade-in is always worth more in a private party sale than in a trade-in situation. You just have to do your homework.
While that may be true in states that require sales tax to be paid on the full price of the new vehicle, it often isn't the case elsewhere. Here in Texas, it is often better to accept a lower price from the dealer on trade-in than to sell private party in order to have hundreds and or thousands on sales tax not to mention the hassles and risks of advertising and selling a vehicle yourself, which itself has some value.
 

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While that may be true in states that require sales tax to be paid on the full price of the new vehicle, it often isn't the case elsewhere. Here in Texas, it is often better to accept a lower price from the dealer on trade-in than to sell private party in order to have hundreds and or thousands on sales tax not to mention the hassles and risks of advertising and selling a vehicle yourself, which itself has some value.
Excellent point.
 

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To clarify, I consider dealer cost to be invoice plus destination charges less holdback.
 

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Do we know what the holdback percentage is on a Ridgeline? Why is the destination fee the same in Alabama as I is in California or Maine?
 
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