What's all that noise about?

19853 Views 34 Replies 16 Participants Last post by redman7.0, Jun 20, 2019

Nervey

Discussion Starter · Mar 12, 2017 (Edited)

(I have a question with a video at the bottom... but first) I've seen stuffed in various posts questions about different noises on the vehicle, some normal some not. Too bad there isn't a whole section on noises.

In fact, one could probably come up with a form/template for a user to ask about the noise. I don't know, something along the lines of...

When Running/or Off:

While Moving/Stationary/P.D.N.R.L/Accelerate/Decelerate:

Geographical Impact/Location based/Surface Condition/Anywhere:

Position of noise, Front, Back, Right, Left, Above, Below, Omni:

Knock, Tick, Grind, Pop, Clank, Buzz, Whistle, Whine, Static, Rumble, Warble, Whump, Thud, Boing, Tink, Scratch, Bounce or Squeal:

Exterior/Interior/Hood/Trunk/Box/Suspension/Tires:

Mechanical/Electrical/Fluid/Air:

Environment Temp/Condition, Rain, Snow, Hot, Freezing:

Drive Train Temp Cold/Warm/Hot:

Cadence Association/by Time, RPM, Speed, Rhythmic, Random, Oscillation, Steady, User Action, Suspension Impact, Temp:

Can it be reproduced at will or not:

Since when/what's changed/Miles/Duration:

Can it be recorded and posted to the forum?

I'm rather new to forums, so maybe there is a better way to handle this. But perhaps if this turns into a useful thread and gets lengthy (we all tend to deviate topics), maybe folks can answer a users question by referencing the POST# the question was created.

For example: FOR ISSUE IN POST#2... your issue sounds like your truck is on fire and you should probably find an old wet blanket and try to beat-it out.

Or for QUESTION IN POST #8675309... Jenny Jenny that is normal, I've got your number, I'll call you.

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Nervey

Discussion Starter · #2 · Mar 12, 2017 (Edited)

So, here is my noise and question. I have what resembles an engine knock (maybe even a motor mount knock), the dealer says it is normal, and it may very well be. I know the injectors are noisy, I recognize those rapid ticks. But is there a signature knock as well? I asked the dealer to allow me to compare to another RL, and the knock is there on the new truck, but not as prominent as mine. I really think it is progressively getting louder over time. It really struck me as getting louder after the first service. The guy that rode with me to compare says he heard it, but it is normal for Honda. He couldn't explain why mine is a little more loud, but felt it was not loud enough to be concern.

Here is my description (I have a recording at the link):

Engine.. or more accurately, appears to comes from under the hood from the block area.. center position, perhaps.
Happens when the engine is warm (it is less noticeable when cold)
Approx 1170-1250 RPM under load (only under load, won't do it in Park/Neutral) typically when beginning to accelerate from stop and disappears quickly at around 1300-1350 RPM. Under normal take-off, it would last about 1 to 2 seconds.
Mid-Deep Knock/Tap similar to a thick alloy/steel, but not very sharp.
The knock cadence is at each revolution of an engine cam (not per each cylinder or based on gear). Similar cadence to one single piston's downstroke consistent with the RPM.
Repeatable
Sounds the same with or without ANC enabled
4400 miles on the vehicle
40 F degree environment (outside temp doesn't seem to make a difference)
Oil level is good
Seems to have only gotten louder after servicing (could be perception after driving a different vehicle for a day).

*** Servicing included Maintenance A (oil, tire rotation)... as well as I had the window run track replaced.

So, I can be convinced it is probably a normal signature. But annoys me that during the comparison with the new truck on the lot, the new one is a bit more subtle and mine is indeed slightly louder.

Loud enough to stand-out in a quiet cabin, but if the climate fan was on at a medium speed the knock would be subdued but still able to be detected. With a radio, you cannot really detect it.

And for the sake of understanding the Honda engine if normal, I'm more curious as to "what it is".

Anyone know?

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NSIDER

· #3 · Mar 12, 2017 (Edited)

I love how the dealers (including any dealer of any brand that does this...) claim a noise is "normal", but then can't explain what is it!

Complete BS. If it is "normal", it is explainable. Period.

Generally, lower engine knocks are never good, or normal.

I would push the dealer for a better answer.

Sparkland

· #4 · Mar 12, 2017

Nervey said:
So, here is my noise and question. I have what resembles an engine knock, the dealer says is normal, and may very well be. I know the injectors are noisy, I recognize that. But is there a signature knock as well? I asked to compare to another RL, and it is there, but not as prominent as mine. I really think it is progressively getting louder over time. It really struck me as getting louder after the first service. The guy that rode with me to compare says he heard it, but it is normal for Honda. He couldn't explain why mine is a little more loud, but felt it was not loud enough to be concern.

Here is my description (I cannot capture it in recording:

* Engine.. or more accurately, appears to comes from under the hood from the block area.. center position, perhaps.
* When warm (less noticeable when cold)
* Approx 1100 RPM under load (typically when beginning to accelerate from stop) disappears quickly at around 1300-1400 RPM. Under normal take-off, it would be about 1 to 2 seconds.
* Mid Deep TAP similar to thick alloy
* Tap is at exactly each revolution of an engine cam (not per cylinder or based on gear). Similar cadence to one piston down-stroke.
* Sounds the same with or without ANC enabled
* 4400 miles on the vehicle
* 40 F degree environment
* Oil level is good
* Seems to have only gotten louder after servicing
*** Servicing included Maintenance A (oil, tire rotation)... as well as I had the window run track replaced.

So, I can be convinced it is probably a normal signature. But annoys me that it seems louder than before Maintenance A service. And during the compare with the new truck on the lot, the new one is a bit more subtle.

And for the sake of understanding the Honda engine if normal, I'm more curious as to "what it is".

Anyone know?

Nervey,

I noticed that sound also and it does worry me!! Never had anything like that in my 2008.

Shineaholic

· #5 · Mar 12, 2017

:surprise:.....

Nervey

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 12, 2017 (Edited)

Added a recording to go with Post#2... I am in Drive with the brake on under load.

(Most noticeable at :28, :51, and most at 1:02 just before I stop)
https://youtu.be/27g-Feii-So

Shineaholic

· #7 · Mar 12, 2017

Nervey said:
Added a recording to go with Post#2... I am in Drive with the brake on under load.

(Most noticeable at :28, :51, and most at 1:02 just before I stop)
https://youtu.be/27g-Feii-So

just my opinion, listening through the terrible youtube cell phone audio...
But it doesn't sound like a rod/crank knock. it sounds like something shaking or vibrating. A rod/crank knock is hard and fast. While not soft by any definition, it is softer than a rod knock. IMHO.

Reactions: 1

Cochise111

· #8 · Mar 12, 2017

Sounds like loose flywheel to torque converter bolts. Have it checked ASAP.

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14v6

· #9 · Mar 12, 2017

I tell you, I think I have all these problem noises. Occasionally it makes the fuel pump cricket sound. That guy that posted about his brand new RL and needing a torque converter or possibly a transmission, I think I have that sound too. It only happens at idle out of gear. There is also another chirping noise but that's apparently normal.

Nervey, the sound in your video would probably be better if the camera was under the truck. I get a knock (not a click) somewhere between 1000 and 1500 rpm every time pulling off. I first noticed this when backing up the slightly inclined driveway. It goes right away as the RPM's increase. It sounds like it is from the bottom end of the engine, crank related not valve related. It seems to happen every pulloff now. I've looked at videos about piston slap but that seems to stay there regardless of RPM. The same holds true for rod knock. If the noise is present at a higher RPM, I can't hear it.

This DI engine is a disappointment in terms of the noises it makes. My 14 Accord V6 is a gem. Makes all the right noises and you can't hear anything at idle. The DI on the RL has the clicking (DI) crickets (fuel pump) chirping (???) and now this knocking. It's getting to the point that I turn off the tunes now to hear the engine. I'm definitely not alone though with all of these noises. So what am I to do? Dealers aren't likely to fix anything unless it's broken and this in fact might be normal for this noisy engine. Besides, I'm probably better off without them messing with this. It's difficult to isolate this noise on video because the car has to be under load. When that post about short blocks came out last week this noise came to mind.:frown:

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Nervey

Discussion Starter · #10 · Mar 13, 2017

^^^ I did the video quickly. I will provide an under vehicle recording maybe tomorrow.

I know what you mean. The crickets bother the hell out of me, but this bothers me more. It is not a well engineered sounding engine, that's for sure. Sounds like a company that specializes in small engines. ...wait, what?

Nervey

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 13, 2017 (Edited)

Cochise111 said:
Sounds like loose flywheel to torque converter bolts. Have it checked ASAP.

Thanks. I laugh. I did have it checked. But thanks again, I will make note to bring it up when I take it to yet another dealer. Audibly, it does resemble that type of issue. I will create a recording under the vehicle to see if I can pick it up louder there. -Cheers.

14v6

· #12 · Mar 13, 2017 (Edited)

The second video has no audio for some reason but it shows the noise at a steady 1100 rpm in gear

joepah17

· #13 · Mar 13, 2017

Could cylinder deactivation have anything to do with the strange sounds people are hearing.?. I don't know what the program is, except under certain conditions the engine will run on either 3, 4 or 6 cylinders

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Sparkland

· #14 · Mar 13, 2017

Nervey said:
Added a recording to go with Post#2... I am in Drive with the brake on under load.

(Most noticeable at :28, :51, and most at 1:02 just before I stop)
https://youtu.be/27g-Feii-So

It seems like the camera shakes more precisely at those times mentioned.:grin:

Nervey

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 13, 2017

Sparkland said:
It seems like the camera shakes more precisely at those times mentioned.:grin:

Yeah, It looks like a family video from my dad, he was just as steady. It doesn't make for exciting video. Just the only way I could come up with to record. But it certainly isn't the camera making the noise. I did a recording from the under the truck. It doesn't tell a whole lot more.

Sparkland

· #16 · Mar 13, 2017

Nervey said:
Yeah, It looks like a family video from my dad, he was just as steady. It doesn't make for exciting video. Just the only way I could come up with to record. But it certainly isn't the camera making the noise. I did a recording from the under the truck. It doesn't tell a whole lot more.

I certainly wasn't dissing your camera skills, just thought there might be a correlation between the two. Keep up the great work!! I enjoy your contributions to this forum.

Reactions: 1

14v6

· #17 · Mar 14, 2017

Nervey, I played your videos back on the desktop and the speakers showed the same sound I have. The thing is, it doesn't have a metal to metal sound so I'm thinking it's not rod knock or piston slap but some type of slight NVH issue. When the camera shook in your video it coincided with the noise. Motor mounts maybe? Hate that this happens on a brand new car but unless it gets worse (and hopefully it doesn't) not much can be done.

phineas

· #18 · Mar 14, 2017 (Edited)

Back when I used to set ignition timing frequently, rotating some distributor to advance or retard timing, this is the sound engines made when timing was retarded. That is, when the spark was late to the party. The engine does not sound like it's running normally. It doesn't sound like a catastrophic problem to me. Have you checked to make sure that all the spark plug wires are fully seated? Is there any possibility that the spark plug wires are in the wrong firing order? I noticed that when you were accelerating slightly in the first video the engine sounded really weak. Does it drive that way too? Is there a stumble on acceleration? Or does it just seem to lack a little bit of power at certain points in the power band? There's definitely something wrong. At first when I was listening to the first video it sounded fine to me; all the noises I could hear were normal noises and then when you started to accelerate slightly and it became very clear that there were something wrong and then I could hear it a little bit more at idle. I know you have a coterie of dealers you been seeing have they all heard this? My engine has an uneven idle. That seems to be normal for this engine. What I'm hearing in your engine sounds like something is definitely off.

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Nervey

Discussion Starter · #19 · Mar 14, 2017

phineas said:
Back when I used to set ignition timing frequently, rotating some distributor to advance or retard timing, this is the sound engines made when timing was retarded. That is, when the spark was late to the party. The engine does not sound like it's running normally. It doesn't sound like a catastrophic problem to me. Have you checked to make sure that all the spark plug wires are fully seated? Is there any possibility that the spark plug wires are in the wrong firing order? I noticed that when you were accelerating slightly in the first video the engine sounded really weak. Does it drive that way too? Is there a stumble on acceleration? Or does it just seem to lack a little bit of power at certain points in the power band? There's definitely something wrong. At first when I was listening to the first video it sounded fine to me; all the noises I could hear were normal noises and then when you started to accelerate slightly and it became very clear that there were something wrong and then I could hear it a little bit more at idle. I know you have a coterie of dealers you been seeing have they all heard this? My engine has an uneven idle. That seems to be normal for this engine. What I'm hearing in your engine sounds like something is definitely off.

I can't say the take-off is abnormal at all. I would probably guess the firing order is fine, or I would think I would get error codes (I would hope so anyway). Firing order of any 2 on swapped on a 6 would give me a different pattern. My OBD tool shows the noise exaggerated at 1170-1230 RPM.

I have a 13 degree driveway... pretty steep. If I'm parked, either nose up, or nose down... I don't hear it as much. I only did that test once, last night so it is not conclusive. Because also the temp dropped to below freezing, so it could be coincidental.

If anyone else has the ability to test 1170-1230 RPM to see if they get an exaggerated noise, that may assist.

phineas

· #20 · Mar 14, 2017

Nervey said:
I can't say the take-off is abnormal at all. I would probably guess the firing order is fine, or I would think I would get error codes (I would hope so anyway). Firing order of any 2 on swapped on a 6 would give me a different pattern. My OBD tool shows the noise exaggerated at 1170-1230 RPM.

I have a 13 degree driveway... pretty steep. If I'm parked, either nose up, or nose down... I don't hear it as much. I only did that test once, last night so it is not conclusive. Because also the temp dropped to below freezing, so it could be coincidental.

If anyone else has the ability to test 1170-1230 RPM to see if they get an exaggerated noise, that may assist.

I hear a rhythmic sound that does not sound right. If that matches what you hear, does that sound increase in frequency as you accelerate the engine?

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