What is the software specifically controlling to maintain the temperature?

 

Most of the heat in a transmission is generated by the friction of the fluid in the torque converter. Less heat is generated during partial engagement of the torque converter clutch. Some heat is generated by the clutches during gear changes.

There are two ways I know of to manage heat through software. One is to increase the speed of shifts which will reduce the amount of slippage of the clutches in between shifts. The other is to increase the use and engagement speed of the torque converter clutch. Both methods will decrease the amount of heat generated at the expense of shift comfort since shifts and TCC engagement will be harsher. The degree of harshness depends on how much adjustment is made.

It's unknown at this time whether the software update is intended to compensate for an inherent design flaw with the transmission or if it simply corrects a software issue that causes the transmission to overheat and burn the fluid.

Personally, I'd suggest having this TSB performed ASAP and would change my transmission fluid more frequently until or unless more is known about this issue.

This seems like the same TSB the 2016+ Acura RDXs have been experiencing. Seems like a know issue with Honda's six speed transmission.

Yup. Same as Acura TSB 16-043, 17-017, and 17-018 affecting the 2013-2017 Acura RDX. Same as 17-014 and 17-015 for the 2016-2017 Pilot. Same for 2013-2017 Accord... No need to check any more - looks like it's most Honda 6AT transmissions from 2013-on (not the Odyssey, though).

UPDATE: Also affects Odysseys with 6AT as well.

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/54-20...s/54-2011-2017-odyssey/279673-those-transmission-issues-2012-2015-odysseys.html

 

This seems like the same TSB the 2016+ Acura RDXs have been experiencing. Seems like a know issue with Honda's six speed transmission.

 

@zroger73 what site are you using for all these TSB?

 

I've experienced this issue. Can you please post the TSB?

Truck has sustained vibration in the gas pedal at constant speed between 25-50 mph.

 

@zroger73, would you know if this is a dealer discretion type of thing or you just take it in and they change the fluid and update software. I don't know what it is with Honda and the torque converters on the 5/6AT. My 08 Odyssey needed a software update and now it looks like my Accord will need one as well.

Thanks for the info.

 

@zroger73, would you know if this is a dealer discretion type of thing or you just take it in and they change the fluid and update software.

The TSB states that the judder must be captured using a snapshot (an electronic data log taken while the symptom is occurring) and sent to Honda else the warranty claim may be denied.

This condition is warranted for 8 years or 80,000 miles.

 

Wonder if this is what a few folks have been experiencing and just attributed it to the VCM.

 

Yeah, I would really like to know if that's the case. Got a message in to get the VCMuzzler, and if this is the source of the problem I'm experiencing, than that's $100 I don't need to spend. Muzzler is getting pricey now.

 

Can someone post a copy or a link to the TSB for the Ridgeline? I did not see that in this thread.

 

Stumbling across the judder issue has revealed some additional concerns. This one, in particular, caught my eye. Remember some of us who have experienced engine knocking?

"TECH LINE SUMMARY ARTICLE - WE’RE GETTING REPORTS OF REDUCED ENGINE POWER WITH THE MIL ON. SERVICE TECHS ARE SEEING DTC P0369 (CMP SENSOR CIRCUIT INTERMITTENT INTERRUPTION) AND SIGNS OF EXCESSIVE CAMSHAFT END PLAY. FROM OUR INVESTIGATION, WE’VE FOUND THAT THE CAMSHAFT THRUST COVER SURFACE ROUGHNESS IS OUT OF SPEC. TO REDUCE END PLAY, SOME TECHS ARE REPLACING THE CAMSHAFT THRUST COVER. BUT EVENTUALLY, THE CAMSHAFT WILL JUST MACHINE THE THRUST COVER AGAIN, RESULTING IN FURTHER EXCESSIVE END PLAY."

Here's another one for those hoping for infotainment system updates:

"THE APP INSTALLER ICON, LISTED UNDER APP LIST ON THE DISPLAY AUDIO SCREEN, HAS DRAWN A FEW QUESTIONS FROM CURIOUS CUSTOMERS. THIS ICON IS MEANT FOR FUTURE APPS THAT MAY BE DEVELOPED. AT THIS TIME, HOWEVER, THERE ARE NONE AVAILABLE OR ANY PLANS TO DEVELOP THEM"

And for those who complain about slow windows:

"DEALER MESSAGE - AMERICAN HONDA (AHM) IS INVESTIGATING CERTAIN 2016-2017 PILOTS & 2017 RIDGELINE WITH A CUSTOMER COMPLAINT OF THE FRONT DRIVER?S AND/OR THE PASSENGER?S WINDOW SLOW TO OPEN/CLOSE. TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE OF THIS CONDITION, AHM WOULD LIKE TO COLLECT SPECIFIC INFORMATION FROM THE VEHICLE PRIOR TO YOU ATTEMPTING A REPAIR OF ANY KIND."

TSBs, and service information are available by subscription only at techinfo.honda.com. "All-you-can-eat" subscriptions start at $10 for one day. For the price of a meal at a fast food restaurant, you can learn a LOT about your vehicle. The TSBs are copyrighted and members have been reprimanded for posting them in the past, so I'm not comfortable doing so. The NHTSA link below will give you summaries, though.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/HONDA/RIDGELINE/PU%252FCC/FWD#manufacturerCommunications

 

Ok, so I just called Honda corporate and gave them the VIN of my Accord and Ridgeline and they say that the service bulletin does not cover my vehicles. I know that the service bulletin for the Accord has the word ALL printed in the Vin Range box. Now I am really confused. The lady at corporate know her stuff so I don't think there is any misunderstanding here. Initially I thought that maybe she only know about recalls and not service bulletins. There must be more to this.

 

Don't forget the TSBs and Tech Line articles are "technical information to dealers" - they aren't mandatory safety recalls. TSBs are typically only performed if the customer experiences the issue described in the bulletin and the dealer can reproduce it. Dealers typically don't perform TSBs as a proactive measure just because a customer becomes aware of the bulletin and wants to nip something in the bud.

 

I only have ~2900 miles on my RTL, but the VCM transition feels more like a hesitation and vibration to me. Having to press harder on the accelerator, then slight vibration.
I have a 2014 Camry that had a torque converter judder which felt more like a quick slipping and catching, over and over again.
The ECU was reprogrammed and the converter replaced to solve that problem.

 

zroger73
Do you or does anyone else know if you can monitor transmission temp with one of the ELM327 bluetooth devices.
I have an older Scanguage and have many options but not Transmission temp.

 

16k miles, including a 2000 mile round trip towing the car trailer through the mountains, and the trans has been fantastic.

Have not changed the fluid yet, but hoping to this weekend.

The drain plug should be magnetic, will report on fluid condition and magnet collection.

Takes 3.3 quarts, simple drain and fill.

 

Does the G2 have a tranny filter?

 

My guess is that re-programming would cause harder shifts, or rather, more abrupt shifts. If they do it right, it will only happen when the trans fluid gets above X degrees. Knowing Honda, it will be an algorithm involving rate of temp increase, ambient temp, elevation, etc.

They won't mess with VCM, as that will affect their MPG ratings and get them in hot water with EPA.

 

I find it very interesting that Honda is coming out with this TSB. They must be having a high rate of failure for them to do this. Also it seems that they feel this must not be a problem for everyone but a problem for the few that drive or create that perfect "storm", hence the very specific diagnostic and problem code documentation required.

Before the G2, I was driving a '13 Accord V6. It had the same drivetrain as the G2 except for the AWD. I drove that car very spiritedly and one of the things that I did was change the ATF fluid often. My normal cycle was every 2nd or third oil change (16,000 to 24,000 miles). My point is (I put 118,000 miles on it before I gave it to my daughter) that I make this observation in that I could often feel the transmission get very sloppy or harsh right before the fluid change. Once I put fresh fluid in the tranny, the shifts felt good again. At the beginning I did the fluid changes just as cheap insurance for tranny longevity but quickly found out that it was doing more good than harm due to the improved performance of the tranny.

My G2 will not get as many miles as the Accord, but it will see some heavier use. So yesterday I got the B16 MM code. So, since I'm already draining the rear diff, I may as well do the tranny. The diff fluid is a dealer item and so is the DW1 tranny fluid, so asking for the additional fluid was a no brainer. The truck will already be up on the lift, so that made it a no brainer too.

I know that most of the new owners that have come on board with the G2 don't really know user csimo, but he was definitely on point with this issue. However rabid he is with Honda, he has truly never led anyone of us wrong. Joe, I Know you read all these post. Thanks for all you do for the ROC.

 

Detailed information on the Accord battery sensor recall...

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2017/RMISC-17V418-2759.pdf

Temporary fix is apply adhesive to seal out moisture. Eventually, a new battery sensor will be available.

 

Is there a non-check engine light DTC generation I should worry about?
Are these indicators kept in the nboard log?
I have noticed nothing but do not wish to allow the old girl to carry on in a less than optimal posture.
I assume since my dealer has serviced it for other maintenance list items, they would have captured the codes?

 

Still have not been able to find copies of TSB 17-025 and 17-026 online. Have never used Dropbox - when I started to download the program for installation, my Norton security software had a fit - saying Dropbox had a variety of security problems and Norton didn't recommend using it.
I'd like to ready through the TSB's to have a better understanding of the issues. Discussions by knowledgable people on this site leave me confused - and comparing it to Accord issue(s) do nothing for me.
So, would someone either post the TSB's or provide a link to them, please.
Maybe it's just a sign of the times, but it seems that the service advisor at the Honda dealer that I've depended on for decades, seem to fall into two very distinct categories: 1. mature and dependable or 2. newer staff (not necessarily young). The 2nd group seem more focused on give short answers (presumably to get to the next customer in line -- without bothering to ask clarifying questions to really understand the issue(s)) which, for me, frustrates and causes me to take more time to get clarification or ask to talk to the service manager.

Anyway - if you have the TSB's and can post them, it would be much appreciated.

 

The links in the post below are for FileDropper, not DropBox. There is no need to download a program.

http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/...625-tsb-17-025-17-026-judder-torque-converter-lock-up-clutch-2.html#post2618457

Just click one of the links, then click "Download This File", type the characters that appear in the box, then click "Download Now". The .PDF file should download.

 

I have a few questions in regard to these TSB...etc.

Seems to me American Honda & Honda of Canada tackle these things independently (efforts), while bouncing off each others towards same goal, but why independently when it's being manufactured from the same plant ?? (good chance that info is on here somewhere :laugh

They at least should not have tried to "muddy" up things with so many unnecessary combo/options...etc. (or lack thereof >:grin

back to tackling things...why no official mail out to owners just like last TSB about c-601 ??

~~~~~

...started out venting.:laugh: ..then got madder !! :frown:..:|... >:grin:

 

why no official mail out to owners just like last TSB about c-601 ??

The transmission judder is an annoyance - not a safety issue. As such, a TSB was written to instruct dealers what to do if and only if a customer comes in with a matching complaint. The procedure is performed at no cost if the vehicle is under warranty. Otherwise, the customer must pay.

The wiring harness water intrusion issue poses a safety risk since it could cause inappropriate activation of Vehicle Stability Assist leading to a crash. Honda could either do a voluntary recall or wait until they were forced to by the NHTSA. A recall never expires and must always be performed at no cost to the current owner regardless of the vehicle's age or mileage.

Very few TSBs are associated with recalls.

 

Anyone have a recording of this sound?

 

On April 13, 2017, Honda released two TSBs for all 2017 Ridgelines. UPDATE: This issue appears to affect all Honda/Acura vehicles with the 6AT dating back to at least 2012.

TSB 17-025 "Judder from the Torque Converter Lock-Up Clutch" and
TSB 17-026 "Judder from the Torque Converter Lock-Up Clutch After Software Update"

Symptom: A judder between 20-60 MPH that feels like a bad torque converter.

Cause: The transmission fluid may deteriorate quicker than expected due to intermittent high heat loads under specific driving conditions.

Solution: Perform a software update and flush (drain and refill twice) the transmission fluid. The software update is supposed to maintain an acceptable fluid temperature under all driving conditions, but some vehicles will still experience the judder and should be flushed (drain and refill three times) again.

Seems like I remember reading a post about a thermal issue related to design that Honda will attempt to patch with a software update a while back, but I was unable to find the post. I wonder if this was the situation that post was referring to. @csimo, do you have any additional details?

I have not checked to see if Honda cancelled my account in over a year, and to be honest I don't want to check. I used to have access to all that info but the last time I posted any info all I got were threats. Sorry.

 

Joe,
The vast majority of us benefit greatly from your 'insider' information. There will always be uneducated or inexperienced or just plain undesirable folks on the inside and the outside who will not like some of your posts, but rest assured that many of us respect what you have to offer.

Honda needs to be more forthcoming to their core enthusiasts. I think this whole "loose lips sink ships" mentality is really overplayed on their part.

 

Well... this is more than depressing. I was looking to get out this type of transmission trouble in the Colorado, by getting into a Ridgeline, I guess that won't be the case, unless the 18's aren't affected, does anyone know?

 

This shouldn't be a concern. In all likelihood, the software update went into production around or before the time this TSB was issued in April 2017. Ridgelines made after this date shouldn't be affected. Even if they were, this doesn't seem to be a very significant issue in hindsight. Honda claims the issue isn't doesn't damage the transmission. On the rare change you have an earlier 2017 and experience this issues, have the software update and fluid change done and carry on. If you have a later 2017 or 2018 and don't experience the symptoms, then I wouldn't give it another thought.

 

Took my 2017 in at 5k for clunking noise from tranny. They said it was too random to duplicate and could not do anything. By 12k the sound was getting louder. Tech drove it, did some research and said there is a TSB and they did an AT drain and fill and updated PCM. This was what the invoice said “Road test and confirmed customer concern ck and found service bulletin for shudder performed service bulletin for shudder updated pcm and flushed transmission. Road test veh still has clicking noise after veh shifts into 3rd gear. Road test like veh drive train found same noise present at this time noise is found to be normal no further action needed. OP code for transmission shudder 1255E4 .2 1255E4” So the new 2018 Ridgeline in stock had the same issue. Not sure if anything will be done or what this means for relability given they seem to have had this issue since 2012 and continues. On a side note I pressed them on mushy brakes and they did a flush (master cylinder was contaminated too). After the flush the brakes feel perfect. Huge difference.

 

I have noticed under part throttle my rpms bounce and I feel what I call a surging. Could this be the jutter?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have noticed under part throttle my rpms bounce and I feel what I call a surging. Could this be the jutter?

I just bought my used BE and have noticed the same issue. Have you found an explanation?

MP

 

I have been noticing some less than smooth shifts on my 2017 BE. And if I need to accelerate quickly to pass a car the downshift will be very abrupt at times. That's what brought me to this thread. I have 36,900 miles on the truck.

Do these symptoms sound like the transmission issues in this discussion? I'd like to get to the dealer asap since I just passed the warranty period. Kinda wish I had noticed it a couple thousand miles ago. It is almost due for the oil change and also the brakes are feeling like I may be getting close to needing new pads.

 

Your symptoms do not sound like those addressed in the TSB.

Worn brake pads shouldn't cause a change in brake feel until all of the material is gone and the metal part of the pads start grinding into the rotor. Long before then, you would have heard the squeal of the brake wear indicators. Make sure the brake fluid level is normal. You might need to have the system bled.

Your transmission is warranted for 5 years or 60,000 miles.

 

As info, two months ago I took my '17 BE to the dealer due to the indicator console lighting up like the Vegas strip. They gave me a list of codes the system was reporting in my paperwork and the resolution included a bump to the latest version of code.

I started to notice the 'judder' and performance issue and returned last week to have the issue diagnosed.

Be warned, (in my case per the dealer) if the dealer upgrades the code without the required fluid exchange, the 'judder' symptom appears for those who did not experience it prior to the software update.

(I'm at 44k miles.)