I traded my 2013 for an 2018 Ridgeline Black Edition three months ago. Love the truck but my torque converter just went out and the dealership said 3400 to fix it. The truck has 86,000 miles on it. Is this a common occurrence or just bad luck? And of course I don't have a warranty.
Torque Converter
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Golffan0720
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VCM stands for Variable Cylinder Management. It's a system that periodically shuts down half of the engine's cylinders under very light load conditions to increase fuel economy by 5-10%. In order to make the transitions between 6 and 3-cylinder modes as unnoticeable as possible, the torque converter clutch is momentarily released then reapplied. Because of the relatively high number of problems with the 6-speed transmission including overheating, judder, and torque converter failure, some have hypothesized that the VCM is the root cause of these failures by overstressing the torque converter clutch. Some also recommmend changing the fluid more frequently than specified by the Maintenance Minder. Some recommend using a different fluid than specified by Honda. Personally, I don't buy that explanation for a number of reasons.
- There are plenty of 6-speed transmissions that have not failed when maintained per the Maintenance Minder
- VCM is also used on other Honda models with 9 and 10-speed transmissions which haven't failed nearly as frequently as 6-speed models.
- The same fluid (Honda DW-1) replaced at the same intervals on older Honda models with 5-speed and older transmissions did not result in premature torque converter failure.
- VCM only switches to 3-cylinder mode under very light load conditions at steady speeds which are some of the easiest conditions a torque converter clutch experiences.
My 2019 started with transmission judder at 70k miles. The computer did not report any error codes yet the judder occurred under specific circumstances. When in top gear 6th speed- approaching a slight incline the transmission would groan. I had the transmission fluid changed at the dealer, the problem remained. I brought it back and explained the problem to the service representative. I asked him if others experienced this problem, he denied of ever hearing the problem. I left the truck for a diagnostic check. 4 hours later, he calls back and admits that they've had Pilots and Ridgelines with this problem. The power train warranty expired at 60k. Here's where the story gets good! He claimed that I had an extended warranty under a company called Ethos and I was covered up to $4k. I checked my paperwork confirming that I never purchased an extended warranty. I had to wait a week for my magical warranty claim to be approved by Ethos. The dealer received a check for $4k and replaced my torque converter, transmission fluid and performed a 4 wheel alignment. It cost me $250 out-of-pocket.
I'm grateful for the mysterious insurance coverage, Is Honda attempting to cover-up a transmission recall? Does anyone have information on the longevity of the repair or should I sell the truck?
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You'll be good for at least another 70k. Yep some fail. Testing shows some anomalies that no one is sure of what to think. Honda knows but isn't talking except with their wallet to replace transmissions.
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Posted answer once on this. Twice not needed.
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I strongly doubt there will ever be a recall since the types of failures reported with the 6-speed transmission do not present a safety risk. So far, they've been inconveniences (warning message, vibration, rough shift) that do not warrant a recall.
It's possible that Honda could issue a warranty extension on the transmission like they did in 2002 when the failure rate hit 2%, but that warranty extension applied to 2000-2002 models that used a transmission that was still in production.
Production of the 6-speed transmission ended in 2020.
If there hasn't been a warranty extension by now, I don't think there ever will be.
The last warranty extension was to 7 years or 100,000 miles. Ridgelines with the 6-speed are now 3 to 6.5 years old with 40,000-100,000 miles on average so a similar warranty extension wouldn't be of much benefit at this point. I believe that Honda will ride this one out and the 6-speed will just go down as one of their less reliable transmissions. There's no point in improving the transmission since it's no longer used.
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There's tons of cars/trucks etc out there with transmissions that are "weak" in daily operation. GM's 8 speed comes to mind easily on this one. They just fiddled with it just enough to make it kinda work but not really and quit selling and making them. Sound familiar ?
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My opinion on these transmissions from my years in Honda dealerships is there's a flaw within the design of the transmission. I think the 30k intervals on vehicles prior to maintenance minders and now with MM the interval is still roughly 30k, that these intervals are too far apart. Replacing 3-3.4qts of ATF when the transmission holds 8-9qts isn't the greatest form of maintenance. I'm sure it helps but adding new fluid to old fluid instantly brings down the effectiveness of the new fluid.
But Kcdirtbro, Honda says DO NOT FLUSH DO NOT FLUSH only drain and fill. Use whatever wordage you want, "flush" "exchange", doesn't matter. If you replace that 8-9qts with new fluid at each service interval, I would bet you'd get more of a lifespan out of that transmission (notice I didn't say to use additives). You hear of a lot of people on other Honda forums doing a 3x3 trans service. 3qt drain and fill, drive, another 3qt D&F, drive and a 3rd 3qt D&F. On my vehicles V6 Hondas I've owned, I've always had access to Honda ATF so I've usually done a 3qt D&F every other or every 3rd oil change. (every about 15k). Is that excessive? Probably. But I've never had to replace a torque converter or entire trans either.
Long story long. I think the life of these transmissions could be extended by moving to less than 30k service intervals. Would it fix these 100%? No. But what's an extra $30-40 between normal service intervals? Better than a few thousand for a trans replacement.
But Kcdirtbro, Honda says DO NOT FLUSH DO NOT FLUSH only drain and fill. Use whatever wordage you want, "flush" "exchange", doesn't matter. If you replace that 8-9qts with new fluid at each service interval, I would bet you'd get more of a lifespan out of that transmission (notice I didn't say to use additives). You hear of a lot of people on other Honda forums doing a 3x3 trans service. 3qt drain and fill, drive, another 3qt D&F, drive and a 3rd 3qt D&F. On my vehicles V6 Hondas I've owned, I've always had access to Honda ATF so I've usually done a 3qt D&F every other or every 3rd oil change. (every about 15k). Is that excessive? Probably. But I've never had to replace a torque converter or entire trans either.
Long story long. I think the life of these transmissions could be extended by moving to less than 30k service intervals. Would it fix these 100%? No. But what's an extra $30-40 between normal service intervals? Better than a few thousand for a trans replacement.
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Yes, it sounds like the 3-speed Roto-Hydramatics that GM used in their cheaper Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles from 1961 to 1964. I had a 1963 Catalina with one and can vouch that it was a total disaster. Also, you could count the Triple Turbine Dynaflow used in Buicks in 1958 (I thuink). Automatic transmissions definitely have a checkered history.
But what happens when we run out of six-speeds? I doubt Honda will be rebuilding them after 2028. At some point, they will become unavailable.
Last week I got the Transmission System and Blind Spot Monitoring warning alerts on my 2018 RTL-E. It seemed like such an odd combination, but the diagnosis was exactly what this message board said it would be. The dealership just called and I need a new torque converter - $4683. I hit five years last month (3/16) and have just under 69k miles, so I am outside of the power train warranty. "So sorry about that", the dealer said. The dealer has performed all services on this, per the mileage minder. I would think Honda would be more concerned about why their product keeps failing prematurely than they are.
I would contact Honda customer service and ask for goodwill coverage. They may say no or they may offer to pay for a portion of the repair. Doesn’t hurt to try. The fact that there are records from the dealer that proper maintenance has been performed may help. If Honda says no I would get an estimate from an independent shop. Also many have reported transmission failure after replacing the TC so you may want to consider replacing the entire transmission assembly with the TC.
I think that if the transmission is going to fail, it likely will regardless of preventive measures taken. At least, that seems to be my case.
17 RTL-E. Trans fluid changed by me every 20K miles (1, not 3, D & F). VCM Muzzler from almost zero miles. Transmission reprogrammed, my understanding - during one of the many warranty visits. Very little, light towing. Gentle, rural driving. Hard to be easier on a vehicle than I am.
Yet, at 79K, major transmission failure. I don’t what I could have done more.
17 RTL-E. Trans fluid changed by me every 20K miles (1, not 3, D & F). VCM Muzzler from almost zero miles. Transmission reprogrammed, my understanding - during one of the many warranty visits. Very little, light towing. Gentle, rural driving. Hard to be easier on a vehicle than I am.
Yet, at 79K, major transmission failure. I don’t what I could have done more.
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Not from the feedback...I did considerable research. If you do your due diligence...you have a decent chance of making good choices. I spoke with several people beforehand who had to use the warranty (not RL owners necessarily) and they had no issues. Is that a guarantee? No. Just like you can make the best possible decision about a vehicle purchase and have it be a lemon. You pay your money and you takes yer chances. Doesn't mean you can try to make the best possible choice with the info you have.
Read the fine print. We bought our truck from a place with a "Lifetime Limited Warranty" for as long as you own the vehicle. We didn't pay extra nor did that advertisement have any bearing on why we bought our truck there... they just happened to be the best priced dealer in town. We do our own work and have written records. However, because we are not an ASE certified shop, we would not be covered by the warranty when our tranny died at 142k. Not unexpected, just confirmation that you have to take your truck in for 100% of it's services and keep the receipts to have any hope that the dealer will honor the 3rd party warranty they offer as a lifetime trans/engine warranty. If you already do take the truck in for all services such as oil, tire rotations, filter changes and so on, it might be worth it, but if you are DIY, chances are no extended warranty is going to be worth your time.
How were you able to find and speak to "several people", who all experienced engine/transmission failures outside of the OEM warranty, and had their vehicles covered by this "lifetime" warranty?
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