There are a litany of people on this forum who have reported poor performance of their AC system. I can attest to this, as my 2022 BE had 50-52 degree vent air on an 75 degree day. Despite the slightly higher boiling temperature of 1234yf over 134a, and the higher condensation pressure, a properly charged and properly metered system with an adequately sized and modulating TXV should easily be able to achieve a delta T of 40 degrees at the vent above 80 ambient. Suffice it to say I used to work in the industry and I'm EPA licensed and know a thing or two about refrigeration.
I did not allow my local Honda dealership to perform service on the air conditioning system because when questioned they do not apply deep vacuum to their high and low side service hoses on their automated refrigeration dummy machine prior to attaching the service valve connector and opening it to the vehicle's system, which introduces a few cubic inches of non-condensable air into the system, reducing performance. The service connections should be attached without opening the schaeder fitting, a deep vacuum applied to the manifold, isolated, and the central charging hose left slightly loose to allow a de minimus release of refrigerant and purging air out of the line when the suction side is opened to prevent introduction of air into the system. I am fortunate enough to be able to buy commercially by the ounce by "buying" the 20-pound cylinder and charged by the cylinder return weight.
My truck needed 2.2 ounces of refrigerant to match compressor condensation pressure to ambient temperature. Because I had a Fluke meter with a thermocouple in the vent, idling in the driveway with the fan 2/3rds, I continued to add refrigerant by the tenth ounce until the vent temperature bottomed out. 2.8 ounces total.
Typically, recommended charge weight is a starting point for competent technicians to add small amounts above static charge weight while the system is running to a proper compressed gas condensation pressure based on ambient temperature moving over the condensing coil. I'm convinced, given the exorbitant cost of R-1234yf refrigerant compared to R-134a (that the EPA have decided to regulate out of existence)-- I'm convinced Honda is shorting each vehicle off the line of a few ounces of this refrigerant... which at $120 per pound (my commercial price), represents a huge sum taken from the consumer.
Honda moved 52,001 Ridgelines in 2023 and stands to sell more this year. At 52,001 vehicles, shorting each vehicle by a single ounce of refrigerant amounts to an approximate $390,000 cost savings for Honda.
The placards on our trucks have a recommended static charge weight of 0.655 kilograms of R-1234yf, with a minimum system charge weight of 0.605 kg. Recommended charge weight is 23.1 ounces, or 1 pound 7.1 ounces total charge, with a minimum charge weight of 21.3 ounces, or 1 pound 5.3 ounces.
Minimum charge weight? Huh? I've never heard of such sorcery. I've worked on massive industrial chillers in hospitals and data centers on down to automotive systems, and I've only ever seen manufacturers affix a designed system charge weight... not a recommended and legally convenient minimum charge weight that allows Honda an out for deliberately reducing the thermal performance of their A/C system by charging the vehicles to this "minimum" weight which keeps the oil circulating to the compressor and does sorta cool off the cabin.
Honda is shorting trucks off the assembly line by 1.8 ounces to provide minimum functional performance and oil circulation and thus skimping on the purchase of 5,850 pounds of refrigerant, at an approximate cost savings of $702,000. Granted, I ended up increasing my system's charge by 2.8 ounces to maximize performance of the system, but I was achieving temps in the mid 40's at the vent prior to that.
I would really like to hear from Honda about this. The $25 in refrigerant I used to get my system working to an acceptable level is not something that will break my finances, but it's just one more little pain in the backside for a vehicle that was over $47K out the door and I'm making payments on for another 2 years.
I did not allow my local Honda dealership to perform service on the air conditioning system because when questioned they do not apply deep vacuum to their high and low side service hoses on their automated refrigeration dummy machine prior to attaching the service valve connector and opening it to the vehicle's system, which introduces a few cubic inches of non-condensable air into the system, reducing performance. The service connections should be attached without opening the schaeder fitting, a deep vacuum applied to the manifold, isolated, and the central charging hose left slightly loose to allow a de minimus release of refrigerant and purging air out of the line when the suction side is opened to prevent introduction of air into the system. I am fortunate enough to be able to buy commercially by the ounce by "buying" the 20-pound cylinder and charged by the cylinder return weight.
My truck needed 2.2 ounces of refrigerant to match compressor condensation pressure to ambient temperature. Because I had a Fluke meter with a thermocouple in the vent, idling in the driveway with the fan 2/3rds, I continued to add refrigerant by the tenth ounce until the vent temperature bottomed out. 2.8 ounces total.
Typically, recommended charge weight is a starting point for competent technicians to add small amounts above static charge weight while the system is running to a proper compressed gas condensation pressure based on ambient temperature moving over the condensing coil. I'm convinced, given the exorbitant cost of R-1234yf refrigerant compared to R-134a (that the EPA have decided to regulate out of existence)-- I'm convinced Honda is shorting each vehicle off the line of a few ounces of this refrigerant... which at $120 per pound (my commercial price), represents a huge sum taken from the consumer.
Honda moved 52,001 Ridgelines in 2023 and stands to sell more this year. At 52,001 vehicles, shorting each vehicle by a single ounce of refrigerant amounts to an approximate $390,000 cost savings for Honda.
The placards on our trucks have a recommended static charge weight of 0.655 kilograms of R-1234yf, with a minimum system charge weight of 0.605 kg. Recommended charge weight is 23.1 ounces, or 1 pound 7.1 ounces total charge, with a minimum charge weight of 21.3 ounces, or 1 pound 5.3 ounces.
Minimum charge weight? Huh? I've never heard of such sorcery. I've worked on massive industrial chillers in hospitals and data centers on down to automotive systems, and I've only ever seen manufacturers affix a designed system charge weight... not a recommended and legally convenient minimum charge weight that allows Honda an out for deliberately reducing the thermal performance of their A/C system by charging the vehicles to this "minimum" weight which keeps the oil circulating to the compressor and does sorta cool off the cabin.
Honda is shorting trucks off the assembly line by 1.8 ounces to provide minimum functional performance and oil circulation and thus skimping on the purchase of 5,850 pounds of refrigerant, at an approximate cost savings of $702,000. Granted, I ended up increasing my system's charge by 2.8 ounces to maximize performance of the system, but I was achieving temps in the mid 40's at the vent prior to that.
I would really like to hear from Honda about this. The $25 in refrigerant I used to get my system working to an acceptable level is not something that will break my finances, but it's just one more little pain in the backside for a vehicle that was over $47K out the door and I'm making payments on for another 2 years.
