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Dw1 vs atf 3.1

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1.8K views 18 replies 7 participants last post by  osimj  
#1 ·
I have a 2017 RTL-E with north of 200k miles. I’m a little over the maintenance cycle for my next transmission fluid change.

when I went to purchase fluid this time the dealer told me they have moved away from DW-1 and gone to ATF 3.1. I assumed that was for the 9 speed Ridgeline. He assures me it will be fine in mine.

We will be towing a 3500 lb trailer across the country in two months. I’d like to know if the 3.1 can be as good to me as dw-1 has.
 
M
#6 · (Edited)
Here is a link to Fuchs Lubricants, with their Titan AF6009 for the ZF-9HP.
TITAN ATF 6009 is miscible and compatible with conventional branded ATFs. However, intermixtures with other ATFs should be avoided in order to fully utilize the product’s benefits.​

Changing fluids in the 2017 should not be any issue according to to Fuchs Lubricants.
In their recommendations at the bottom is Honda ATF Type 3.1 stating it will work. So it should work fine in the 6 speed.



But for the later model Ridgelines with the ZF-9HP:

In the Weber Auto video on the ZF-9HP transmission the tech instructor (Weber University in Utah) emphasized that the ZF-9HP has a specific transmission fluid for it and that is what MUST be used to avoid issues. I would verify in print on the can/bottle and in the owner's manual that whatever is being put in my transaxle (also pointed out in the videos, not a transmission only) is the correct fluid.

Here is a link to Fuchs Lubricants, with their Titan AF6009 for the ZF-9HP. In their recommendations at the bottom is Honda ATF Type 3.1.
 
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#10 · (Edited)
markk53 said:
Changing fluids in the 2017 should not be any issue according to to Fuchs Lubricants.
In their recommendations at the bottom is Honda ATF Type 3.1 stating it will work. So it should work fine in the 6 speed.
Click to expand...
May I point out that the 6-speed is not a “conventional” automatic transmission where Honda transmissions don't use planetary gears like most other automatics. Instead, they are more like an automated manual. Also that DW1 is not a “conventional” transmission fluid, “……………you shouldn't use DW1 in a non-Honda transmission. It has levels of zinc that are toxic to other transmissions.” So then, wouldn’t common sense dictate that the reverse should to be true where “conventional” transmission fluid should not be used in the 6-speed?

Bill
 
#7 ·
If the ATF 3.1 was "backwards compatible" with the DW-1, Honda would put the statement in print somewhere.

Yes, there have been some other OEM formulations that have come out with a new version......and the literature states it is backwards compatible.

One example includes DEXRON trans fluid.

DW-1 and ATF 3.1 seem to be different animals.
 
#9 ·
here is some info.....now we need to find some DW-1 info

TITAN ATF 6009 | Automotive lubricants | FUCHS LUBRICANTS CO. (United States)

Description TITAN ATF 6009 has been specially developed with reduced viscosity to optimize the performance of the latest generation 8- and 9-speed ZF automatic transmissions. ZF is a major supplier of driveline and chassis technology, with its automatic transmissions being used by many vehicle...
www.fuchs.com www.fuchs.com

But--- unless a later arriving "recipe" is introduced and is identified as an "improvement" that is authorized by the OEM, I would not try mixing things. Once mixed, you can just about never go back to 100% pure and proper stuff.
 
E
#12 · (Edited)
bobcrane said:
Thank you all for the good feedback/discussion. What I am hearing is there is no benefit to 3.1 but there is potential for risk. Given those options it makes sense to stick with DW1.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
It's more than a potential risk. It is simply the wrong fluid for the vehicle. Your 6spd is specifically designed for DW1. ATF 3.1 is formulated for a completely different transmission and I can promise you that Honda themselves (not your dealer) would tell you that in no way should you use fluid for the ZF 9 spd in your Honda AT6 transmission.
 
M
#14 ·
I kept trying to see if Honda had any references between the Type 3.1 and the DW-1, not finding any, I will do two things, which the OP probably should have...

  1. I'd contact Honda and ask.
  2. See if DW-1 is available... which I did and apparently it is actual Honda DW-1 available from an Amazon source.
So if I was in the OP's position, I'd buy the fluid myself and take it in for the service. They should have no problem using Honda oil that Honda called for in the first place.

What I should have done - read a bit closer and realize the OP just didn't do what was logical.
 
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E
#15 · (Edited)
Unless I missed something HONDA didn't say 3.1 is a substitute / replacement for DW1; some DEALER parts department did. Honda Dealerships and Honda the manufacturer are completely different entities. At this point, this is entire discussion owes its start to an ill informed individual(s) at the dealership providing bad information that Honda the manufacturer would almost certainly not agree with.
DW1 is still available especially since it is the only Honda recommended fluid for the At5 /At6 (and whatever else they specced it for) transmissions.
 
#18 ·
Here's what I use in my 2017 RTL with the 6 speed. If you look at the specs and applications it can be used in you will find as I did that it works in a DW-1 application as well as the 3.1 application as mentioned by AMSOIL. This would allow one to think that possibly the 3.1 oil as offered by the Honda dealership may work as well. Would I put that 3.1 from the dealership into my 6 speed as a normal replacement 4 quart change ? That is the question asked. And no I wouldn't as I've been having great success with the AMSoil product in my 6 speed. My last oil analysis showed a iron content of 31. That's a stable number and the oil analysis guy I had been using said that was the goal to get to. Once there he said I could extend the interval some and that was what would be safe to prevent iron wear within the transmission. That's been a problem with these. I'm happy with my results and the only way to really ensure that the 3.1 Honda version oil would do the job is start at a low mileage and do analysis of the oil at the changes as I've done. This would ensure that it is lubricating as intended and stays there. Like what I did it's based on my money and risk level. Mine is working out so far.

G-3110 ATF-ATL Data Sheet.pdf

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#19 · (Edited)
Below is the inline transmission filter for the Honda 6 speed.
More Bad advise from My Honda dealer and other peoples dealers on this forum and the Pilot forum is that this filter never needs to be changed . That is complete nonsense , as it clogs up the transmission is starved for fluid . Can’t remember if it was this forum or the Pilot forum where someone cut the old filter open showing the restriction in a filter that hadn’t been changed for a few trans fluid changes.
My Wife’s 2020 6 speed Pilot will be having this filter changed when the fluid is changed to add to the transmission longevity.

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