[geezee60]

As I tow a lot I have done my (2020) tranny 3X in 55k miles, always with the truck and oil at ambient/room temp ( basically both in the garage, first thing in the morning before the day's heat hits....) so the CTE is not a factor with like temperature fluids. This does 'assume' that the factory filled it correctly the first time, of course. I put in the same volume- not weight, that comes out each time. I have never replaced the drain plug nor washer, and its never leaked a drop. YMMV. I use ZF Lifeguard 9 each time, generally buy a 6 pack of it online about 140 bucks, which is 1.5 changes or so. 3/8" drive socket fits all the plugs.

 

[splask]

For reference, here's a handy table that I came up with describing Ridgeline maintenance intervals.

View attachment 461575

Note that each of these codes will appear only when the next oil change is within 15% of being due. For this reason it is very important to NOT reset the Maintenance Minder early, even if you choose to change your oil early. If the Maintenance Minder is continually reset early, then pending codes will never be displayed.

Morning Mike, So what your saying is all maintenance actions reset when you reset your oil early? I have a 2017 CRV and do the oil changes at 60% life due to oil dilution process. I have not seen it effect the other service maintenance scheduled changes on the computer. I love you table and will be posting it in my shop for future use on the 23 Ridgeline. I wish they would put that table back in the owners manual. I never take my autos to the dealer as I don't trust people messing with my car and the cost is getting crazy.

 

[longboat]

Morning Mike, So what your saying is all maintenance actions reset when you reset your oil early? I have a 2017 CRV and do the oil changes at 60% life due to oil dilution process. I have not seen it effect the other service maintenance scheduled changes on the computer. I love you table and will be posting it in my shop for future use on the 23 Ridgeline. I wish they would put that table back in the owners manual. I never take my autos to the dealer as I don't trust people messing with my car and the cost is getting crazy.

They don't reset, they are just postponed until whenever you let the MM reach 15%.

 

[Wisconsin_Mike]

Morning Mike, So what your saying is all maintenance actions reset when you reset your oil early? I have a 2017 CRV and do the oil changes at 60% life due to oil dilution process. I have not seen it effect the other service maintenance scheduled changes on the computer. I love you table and will be posting it in my shop for future use on the 23 Ridgeline. I wish they would put that table back in the owners manual. I never take my autos to the dealer as I don't trust people messing with my car and the cost is getting crazy.

The Honda Maintenance Minder implementation is a little confusing. Resetting the Maintenance Minder early simply resets the oil life. But ALL other Maintenance Minder items are keyed off of the next oil change Maintenance Minder popup. So, let's say you have a '23 Ridgeline with 14,000 miles. You're coming up due on the first rear differential fluid change, but you'll only get notified of the Maintenance Minder Code 6 when you're coming up due on your next oil change. So if you change your oil early (prior to the Maintenance Minder showing 15% oil life remaining) and reset the Maintenance Minder, then you'll never see the "Code 6" come up because you never got notified of the oil change. That Code 6 is still stored in the Maintenance Minder, but unless you let it count down to 15%, it'll never pop up.

So theoretically, you could reset your Maintenance Minder early every time (meaning that it NEVER pops up on its own), and when you rack up 120,000 miles and then let the Maintenance Minder count down to 15% oil life left, it'll pop up a "Code B123456", indicating that ALL maintenance items are due, lol.

So the point is... Don't reset your Maintenance Minder if you change your oil early. Let it count down so that you can see any pending maintenance codes. The easiest way to do this is just to follow the Maintenance Minder. Change your oil when the Maintenance Minder tells you that it's time. Reset it when you change the oil. You'll always get all the codes and everything will work out fine.

But if you feel like you need to change your oil early, then I would suggest every 5,000 miles - resetting the Maintenance Minder every other time. This way you get the pending maintenance codes.

Of course the 3rd option is to just change the oil when you want and reset the Maintenance Minder every time, but then you'll need to follow the table (which Honda doesn't publish) on your own.

 

[Apex]

Thumbs up OP for this thread. My 2022 has about 50k on it now so I will be doing this soon.

I may have missed it in this thread, but what is the actual, correct process for checking fluid level in the ZF9?

In my gen 2 Tacoma, the process started with getting a scan tool with a PID for transmission fluid temp. Then bring the atf to the correct temp, and then remove the level check bolt on the transmission. When The flow slowed to a trickle, that was at the correct level. Too high or too low of temp and the measurement would be wrong.

Something similar for the Honda?

 

[Kenstone]

@Wisconsin_Mike :
Thanks for the write-up
I was across the country towing a cargo trailer with my '18 gen2 RL when the (6spd) trans over heated warning light came on .
I pulled over and left it running until that warning went out.
I finished the trip babying it at or below the posted speed limits.
5x8 shallow V-nosed Cargo trailer:

When I returned home, I had it scanned at the stealership, it showed no codes so had the trans drained and refilled.
Upon inspection back home, the drain plug had no indication of ever being removed so I can only assume the dealer sucked the fluid out from the dipstick hole or fill plug.
There was no mention of any fluid burnt smell.
I installed a scan gage to monitor the trans fluid temp.
I saw a temp of 350F while creeping around in the mountains of Idaho, and the warning light had not came on.
I have since installed a 2x trans cooler in series with the OEM cooler but have not towed with it yet.
Kenstone

 

[Shoulder]

Because your dealer likes to make money. In general, following the built-in Maintenance Minder will serve you well. I changed mine early simply because I tow and it made sense to me to cut my Maintenance Minder interval in half so that it's still accurate half the time.

I recently took my RL in for the tailgate wiring harness recall, and since this was the first time taking it into that particular dealership, they recommended the transfer case, rear diff, trans fluid, and brake fluid changes, and gave me a quote. Specifically, for the trans fluid, they also say every 30k miles, even though I knew that was for the 6-speed. They also wanted 400 bucks for that fluid change alone, so no thank you for that.

I am just under 60k miles, and I do lots of highway driving, but I am looking to change the transmission fluid soon when I do my next motor oil change (I don’t do much towing with mine). And then at the same time, I need to do the transfer case, and rear diff as I did those two myself at 30k miles. Already have all the fluids minus the transmission fluid, which I'll source from my local dealer parts department.

So Mike, thanks so much for your detailed write up! Yeah, it's cold here right now, but that won’t stop me.

 

[Kenstone]

I recently took my RL in for the tailgate wiring harness recall, and since this was the first time taking it into that particular dealership, they recommended the transfer case, rear diff, trans fluid, and brake fluid changes, and gave me a quote. Specifically, for the trans fluid, they also say every 30k miles, even though I knew that was for the 6-speed. They also wanted 400 bucks for that fluid change alone, so no thank you for that.

I am just under 60k miles, and I do lots of highway driving, but I am looking to change the transmission fluid soon when I do my next motor oil change (I don’t do much towing with mine). And then at the same time, I need to do the transfer case, and rear diff as I did those two myself at 30k miles. Already have all the fluids minus the transmission fluid, which I'll source from my local dealer parts department.

So Mike, thanks so much for your detailed write up! Yeah, it's cold here right now, but that won’t stop me.

Yeh, just back from fuel pump recall with a litany list of "over due" maintenance including all the things you mentioned to the tune of $3300.00
With that built in Maintenance Minder and no mileage chart for service in the manual dealers have a free rein on their take on the maintenance intervals.
Recommending changing the timing belts/water pump (for $1700) was the shocker to me as my 2018 RL only has 46k miles.
Actually the 2nd trip on the fuel pump to replace the broken trim clips they broke on the 1st recall visit.
Sad, I know,
Kenstone

 

[Shoulder]

Yeh, just back from fuel pump recall with a litany list of "over due" maintenance including all the things you mentioned to the tune of $3300.00
With that built in Maintenance Minder and no mileage chart for service in the manual dealers have a free rein on their take on the maintenance intervals.
Recommending changing the timing belts/water pump (for $1700) was the shocker to me as my 2018 RL only has 46k miles.
Actually the 2nd trip on the fuel pump to replace the broken trim clips they broke on the 1st recall visit.
Sad, I know,
Kenstone

More like a Stealership if I ever saw one. Already quoting you for a timing belt service at 46k miles? Who do they think they are, Ferrari, or Porsche?

 

[speedee06]

Has there been a recall for the fuel pump on the gen2 Ridgelines? I've received nothing, and mine is a 2021.

 

[Kenstone]

Has there been a recall for the fuel pump on the gen2 Ridgelines? I've received nothing, and mine is a 2021.

FYI
I just had the fuel pump recall done on my 2018 Gen2.
jmo,
.

 

[CanAmSteve]

The Honda Maintenance Minder implementation is a little confusing. Resetting the Maintenance Minder early simply resets the oil life. But ALL other Maintenance Minder items are keyed off of the next oil change Maintenance Minder popup. So, let's say you have a '23 Ridgeline with 14,000 miles. You're coming up due on the first rear differential fluid change, but you'll only get notified of the Maintenance Minder Code 6 when you're coming up due on your next oil change. So if you change your oil early (prior to the Maintenance Minder showing 15% oil life remaining) and reset the Maintenance Minder, then you'll never see the "Code 6" come up because you never got notified of the oil change. That Code 6 is still stored in the Maintenance Minder, but unless you let it count down to 15%, it'll never pop up.

So theoretically, you could reset your Maintenance Minder early every time (meaning that it NEVER pops up on its own), and when you rack up 120,000 miles and then let the Maintenance Minder count down to 15% oil life left, it'll pop up a "Code B123456", indicating that ALL maintenance items are due, lol.

So the point is... Don't reset your Maintenance Minder if you change your oil early. Let it count down so that you can see any pending maintenance codes. The easiest way to do this is just to follow the Maintenance Minder. Change your oil when the Maintenance Minder tells you that it's time. Reset it when you change the oil. You'll always get all the codes and everything will work out fine.

But if you feel like you need to change your oil early, then I would suggest every 5,000 miles - resetting the Maintenance Minder every other time. This way you get the pending maintenance codes.

Of course the 3rd option is to just change the oil when you want and reset the Maintenance Minder every time, but then you'll need to follow the table (which Honda doesn't publish) on your own.

As discussed ad nauseam, this Honda implementation of MM may work for the less-maintenance-minded, but is worse thanuseless for me. Fortunately I track required services and have them all done early, when it is convenient for me and fits my (twice a year) service schedule - not in the middle of the winter or while I'm away on holiday

 

[Apex]

Thumbs up OP for this thread. My 2022 has about 50k on it now so I will be doing this soon.

I may have missed it in this thread, but what is the actual, correct process for checking fluid level in the ZF9?

anyone have the actual service procedure? Maybe a link to the service manual?

Or is the correct process just to replace what you remove?

 

[spredvan]

anyone have the actual service procedure? Maybe a link to the service manual?

Or is the correct process just to replace what you remove?

Not sure if I can include attachments, but I'll try.

Personally, I think changing with the same quantity removed is risky. Especially if ZF has recommended a higher fluid level now, which may be the case (see below). Also, you would be assuming the level is correct to begin with.

I have attached the ATF Fluid Replacement procedure, and the procedure to Enter VSA Maintenance Mode.

I signed on last March to access procedures for my 2021 RTL, and there were two procedures for ATF fluid change. One procedure did not include the Note I reference below, which requires a 6 mm higher fluid level. This higher level may have been a change from the original method of the proper level being at the bottom of the level check hole, at proper temperature. I have not seen anything official, other than this Note. Maybe the procedure has been updated again, since my initial access in March 2024.

In other research, I remember finding a YouTube video with a mechanic explaining the reason why the ZF9 fluid level should be higher, but I cannot find it now. However, this "higher level" might be a valid new recommendation.

I'm not sure how one can comply with this Note on page 5, as the procedure offers no guidance on how to achieve a level 6 mm higher than the bottom of the level check hole.

Note: When the ATF temperature is between 99－113 °F (37 － 45 °C), the proper ATF level is about 6 mm (0.25 in) higher than the bottom of the level check hole.

Also, this procedure has you add the new fluid through the level check hole. At no time do you remove the plug on the top of the transmission. Not sure why, as it would definitely be easier.

As complex as this procedure is, especially with no guidance on how to achieve this "higher level", I have zero confidence that my local Honda Service Technician would get this right; whatever right is.

I have been following these threads, in the hope someone can share updated, reliable information. When the time comes, my plan is to put my RTL on jack stands in my garage to maintain level, and follow the attached procedure. My ScanGauge II will provide Transmission fluid temperature. Hopefully, there will be a clear answer on proper level before my time comes. I will check the Service Express site again, before my first fluid change. While my RTL is almost 4 years old, it only has 21k miles. I still have time.

Hope this helps.

 

[dbbd1]

^ Thanks for the indepth answer and the attachments.

Edit- I wonder if it was filled to the check level hole when cold, if it would expand enough to make up that 6mm.

 

[spredvan]

^ Thanks for the indepth answer and the attachments.

Edit- I wonder if it was filled to the check level hole when cold, if it would expand enough to make up that 6mm.

The original procedure also included checking level to be at the bottom of the check level hole, within the proper temperature range.

Which makes sense, as that is typically the main purpose of a check hole.

I suspect that at some time later, ZF determined the actual fluid level should be 6 mm higher, and notified Honda as such, when their procedure was updated. From what I remember in that YouTube video, it supported that theory.

I am going to try and find that video again. I usually bookmark them, but it's not in my bookmarks. 😭

 

[spredvan]

This is not the video I remember, but it does share info on why other manufactures specify a higher fluid level. This might be the reason ZF/Honda now say the proper level is 6 mm above the bottom of the check level hole.

Also, at 8:15 in the video, he checks the fluid level by "quickly" removing and reinstalling the check plug. This is one way to verify the level at 6 mm from the bottom.

 

[Apex]

That’s really good stuff thank you. I remember when I did my Tacoma, you had to have the fluid pour out of the check hole at the correct temperature. The key point was a steady, slow pour was what you were looking for. Not zero flow. And not gushing. That indicates the final level was higher than the check hole. It was not exact. This sounds similar.

 

[jimmyridged]

Not sure if I can include attachments, but I'll try.

Personally, I think changing with the same quantity removed is risky. Especially if ZF has recommended a higher fluid level now, which may be the case (see below). Also, you would be assuming the level is correct to begin with.

I have attached the ATF Fluid Replacement procedure, and the procedure to Enter VSA Maintenance Mode.

I signed on last March to access procedures for my 2021 RTL, and there were two procedures for ATF fluid change. One procedure did not include the Note I reference below, which requires a 6 mm higher fluid level. This higher level may have been a change from the original method of the proper level being at the bottom of the level check hole, at proper temperature. I have not seen anything official, other than this Note. Maybe the procedure has been updated again, since my initial access in March 2024.

In other research, I remember finding a YouTube video with a mechanic explaining the reason why the ZF9 fluid level should be higher, but I cannot find it now. However, this "higher level" might be a valid new recommendation.

I'm not sure how one can comply with this Note on page 5, as the procedure offers no guidance on how to achieve a level 6 mm higher than the bottom of the level check hole.

Note: When the ATF temperature is between 99－113 °F (37 － 45 °C), the proper ATF level is about 6 mm (0.25 in) higher than the bottom of the level check hole.

Also, this procedure has you add the new fluid through the level check hole. At no time do you remove the plug on the top of the transmission. Not sure why, as it would definitely be easier.

As complex as this procedure is, especially with no guidance on how to achieve this "higher level", I have zero confidence that my local Honda Service Technician would get this right; whatever right is.

I have been following these threads, in the hope someone can share updated, reliable information. When the time comes, my plan is to put my RTL on jack stands in my garage to maintain level, and follow the attached procedure. My ScanGauge II will provide Transmission fluid temperature. Hopefully, there will be a clear answer on proper level before my time comes. I will check the Service Express site again, before my first fluid change. While my RTL is almost 4 years old, it only has 21k miles. I still have time.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the information. My main takeaway from the attached procedure is the best way to check for a correct fill is to get the transmission up to operating temperature, at which point fluid should be on the verge of leaking out of the fill/check hole.

That the second note about checking when the ATF fluid is between 99-113F (37-45C) is an alternate method for when the vehicle has been allowed to sit for awhile. Giving the upper temperature limit (113F) that a mechanic should dare to stick their nitrile-covered finger into the fill hole to see if the fluid can be touched with the tip of their index finger. I have not researched the matter but would not the ATF volume remain roughly the same between 32-100F? At least within the margin of error for a rough ~6mm depth check.

 

[Wisconsin_Mike]

I have not researched the matter but would not the ATF volume remain roughly the same between 32-100F? At least within the margin of error for a rough ~6mm depth check.

According to the documents that @spredvan posted, the total transmission capacity is between 7.6 and 8.1 quarts. For reference, my Ridgeline manual says that the change capacity is 3.7 quarts.

As I mentioned earlier, the interwebs says that ATF usually has an expansion rate of 0.07% per °C.

Starting at 32°F and ending at 100°F, that's 0.0°C to 37.8°C for a change of 37.8°C.

8 quarts starting at 0°C and increasing to 37.8°C at a rate of 0.07% per °C turns into 8.212 quarts.

That 0.212 quart expansion is 200626.8 cubic mm.

In order to raise the fluid level of a square box 6mm by adding 200626.8 cubic mm of fluid, the cube would need to be 182.9mm per side.
200626.8 cubic mm / 6mm = 33437.8 square mm
Square root of 33437.8 = 182.9 mm

182.9mm is 7.2 inches.

So if we had a box that measured 7.2" per side and dumped 8 freezing cold quarts of ATF in it and then heated it up to 100°F, the level would increase by 6mm.

That actually doesn't seem too unreasonable. It's at least within the realm of possibility that the inside volume of the transmission could be reduced to a 7.2" box.