[zroger73]

Are you implying that Honda has not had 6-speed transmission issues? I'm thinking the 9-speed went into planning soon after the 2017 TSB and warranty recall.

Honda was still using a 6-speed transmission when other brands had moved to 7, 8, 9, and 10-speed transmissions for fuel economy, performance, and marketing. Honda knew they needed more than 6 speeds, but this was the physical limit to the number of speeds that could be used in their parallel-shaft automatic transmission design. In order to have more than 6 speeds, they would need to develop a new transmission from the ground up that was completely different from their 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6-speed design. They started developing a 10-speed unit based on a conventional design with planetary gears, but it would not be ready in time, so they outsourced transmissions for the first time in the history of the company. This is how the ZF 9HP transmission came to be in Acura and Honda automobiles. Honda planned to use their in-house 10-speed in all applications that used the 6-speed, but until they could ramp up production, they used a combination of 6, 9, and 10-speed units. The Ridgeline and Passport are the last two Honda models using the 9-speed. Once those models are redesigned to use the 10-speed, Honda's reliance on ZF will fade away.

 

[wjfyfe]

Boy, talk about putting words into somebody's mouth. Manufacturers do not make decisions on the spur of the moment, things are long planned out in advance. So I'll say again I bet way back when that it was planned that the 6-speed would ultimately replace the 5-speed, and then the 9-speed would replace the 6-speed. This was determined long before the 6-speed was actually installed in the Ridgeline where going to the 9-speed had absolutely nothing to do with any issues with the 6-speed. Does that make sense now?
Bill

 

[hotrod60]

I have a 2019 RIDGELINE 2WD RTL with the 6 speed auto transmission. Had the transmission fluid drained at 30,000 miles and even tho I told the independent shop to use Genuine Honda ATF DW-1, they opted to use the “Honda approved” ‘GLOBAL MULTI VEHICLE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID’ that they bought in 55 gal drums.

At 47,300 miles we went on a 2 hour trip. The truck started bucking and jumping, the dash started showing ‘hill stability assist’, ‘trailer stability assist’, and ‘power steering’ lights. The RPM’s fluctuated between 2000 and 5000 when the transmission was looking for the proper gear and the transmission shifted randomly with the accelerator position.

Pulled over to see if we had a tire problem since it sounded like a flat tire...none. Went on our way to destination. After being there for over 1-1/2 hours started the truck and all the lights on the dash went out and drove home without any more problems because of the lower temperature.

Took it to the Honda dealer the next morning and they told me that the fluid in the transmission was the cheapest fluid solD; they had enough stock of the ATF DW-1 so I had them change the fluid. They also put the fluid through a sieve and there were no pieces of the transmission in the fluid.

We have not had anymore problems even though the outside temperature has increased 15° to 20°. Needless to say, we no longer use this shop.

 

[stevem5215]

Did the shop do a "Fluid exchange" and get all the old fluid out or did they just do the dump and fill once (or three X's).

 

[john brown]

Did the shop do a "Fluid exchange" and get all the old fluid out or did they just do the dump and fill once (or three X's).

I want to clarify this 3x, does this mean they dump the fluid 3x's and put in a 4th? and how much running between each dump?

 

[longboat]

I want to clarify this 3x, does this mean they dump the fluid 3x's and put in a 4th? and how much running between each dump?

Three drains and three fills, which changes out something like 85%-90% of the fluid. I thing a fourth drain & fill gets you maybe another 5%. Maybe @speedlever has a chart floating around.

Vehicle should be driven a couple miles between DnFs.

 

[john brown]

Three drains and three fills, which changes out something like 85%-90% of the fluid. I thing a fourth drain & fill gets you maybe another 5%. Maybe @speedlever has a chart floating around.

Vehicle should be driven a couple miles between DnFs.

thanks, I went to the dealership yesterday and service manager made notes on it and said there was nothing to be gained by them doing it as far as warranty and said go ahead and give it a go.

 

[snakebait6]

Honda was still using a 6-speed transmission when other brands had moved to 7, 8, 9, and 10-speed transmissions for fuel economy, performance, and marketing. Honda knew they needed more than 6 speeds, but this was the physical limit to the number of speeds that could be used in their parallel-shaft automatic transmission design. In order to have more than 6 speeds, they would need to develop a new transmission from the ground up that was completely different from their 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6-speed design. They started developing a 10-speed unit based on a conventional design with planetary gears, but it would not be ready in time, so they outsourced transmissions for the first time in the history of the company. This is how the ZF 9HP transmission came to be in Acura and Honda automobiles. Honda planned to use their in-house 10-speed in all applications that used the 6-speed, but until they could ramp up production, they used a combination of 6, 9, and 10-speed units. The Ridgeline and Passport are the last two Honda models using the 9-speed. Once those models are redesigned to use the 10-speed, Honda's reliance on ZF will fade away.

How similar are the Honda ZF and the Chrysler/ Mercedes ZF?

 

[zroger73]

Same design, but Stellantis builds their version in-house under license from ZF. The ones Honda uses are built by ZF.

There are some minor differences in software and how the park lock works, but the bulk of the transmission itself is the same.

 

[snakebait6]

Same design, but Stellantis builds their version in-house under license from ZF. The ones Honda uses are built by ZF.

There are some minor differences in software and how the park lock works, but the bulk of the transmission itself is the same.

Thanks Are you sure you're not AI?

 

[zroger73]

I'm AS. 🤪

 

[longboat]

I'm AS. 🤪

Then you have no limits!

 

[john brown]

the more you get into this transmission thing the more it seems that Honda has a FLUID problem more so than a trans problem.

 

[wjfyfe]

the more you get into this transmission thing the more it seems that Honda has a FLUID problem more so than a trans problem.

After performing several fluid analysis, while monitoring the transmission using a ScanGuage, I have found little to no evidence to support that statement. What I (think I) have learned about the 6-speed...

For me, the more convincing anecdotal evidence of it not being a fluid issue would be where replacement transmissions appear to be operating with little to no issues? They still are continuing to use the same DW1, are they not?
Bill

 

[smuook]

From our experience, any woes that the 6-speed may have, they include neither fluid nor heat related issues, as additionally monitored by a ScanGuage.

That is certainly one conclusion on the forum. Having switched to a synthetic fluid after shift issues with now many miles of normal driving and towing, I have a different opinion. To suggest fluid doesn't make a difference (why does Honda recommend 3x D&F?) or heat has nothing to do with the problems (heat is always the enemy and many threads on heat from the few that monitor) is just ridiculous on its face and certainly not my experience. I'm OK with saying it as the jury is still out. I'm certainly not pushing my opinion on others. I'm OK with saying it is not all transmissions... at least that get to the problematic or catastrophic stage. Heck, most people probably dont know what DW-1 even is. Who knows, there maybe several issues going on. The oil analysis is interesting but not definitive for me - you have no where enough use cases. I'm personally not going to wastea lot of time on something that can't easily be proven on the user end.

 

[zroger73]

Premature 5-speed failures were exceedingly rare. The 6-speed is the same design and also uses DW-1.

If DW-1 was the cause of premature transmission failures, why wouldn't Honda reformulate it or sell/recommend an aftermarket fluid which would cost them a lot less than rebuilding and replacing thousands of transmissions under warranty?

 

[wjfyfe]

To suggest fluid doesn't make a difference (why does Honda recommend 3x D&F?) Honda only recommend the triple dump-n-fill to replace the damaged fluid associated with the TSBs specific to the 2017 transmission.

...... or heat has nothing to do with the problems (heat is always the enemy and many threads on heat from the few that monitor) is just ridiculous on its face and certainly not my experience. I would be very interested in reviewing your experiences with overheating where have experienced absolutely no heating problems with our Ridgeline while operating under normal conditions as monitored with our ScanGuage.

 

[stevem5215]

IMO the fluid isn't doing the job. The whole 6 speed transmission is borderline for torque handling in the Ridgeline truck and Pilot. That's why it fails in these IMO. It's just stressed to the max. The 9 speed has a better torque rating for the vehicles and time will tell on the 10 speed.

As for the fluid DW-1, analysis of the fluid has shown high iron contents and aluminum contents. That along with the recent pictures from the magnefilter show that iron build up. There's something to that iron wear causing problems. Possibly over time, heavy use, tighter tolerances in some vs others but it's something as it's showing us. My iron wear has decreased due to the use of Amsoil with better properties for handling that wear. A full synthetic fluid has shown in lots of applications to be a superior fluid. I believe this to be the case with it in the 6 speed.

As for heat, we know that prolonged low speed use makes the transmission fluid hot. This is also questioned inside the transmission as they do have hot spots where that occurs. That also breaks down the fluid. Exchanging that broken down fluid more often will provide better protection from wear with the iron content problems and the aluminum problems. DW-1 will provide that protection most likely if exchanged more often. We already know that 30k of the fluid even in my transmission the DW-1 was at the limit of it's service life based on the results from the first test. After that I didn't trust it and went to a better quality wear resistant fluid with better heat resisting properties. Amsoil provides that protection. Hence what I'm running now.

 

[zroger73]

The 6-speed was first used in the 2010 MDX which is rated at 270 lb-ft of torque. The 2017-current Ridgeline is rated at 262 lb-ft of torque.

Consumer Reports shows "much better than average" reliability for the 2011 and 2012 MDX and "much worse than average" for the 2013 model year despite no advertised changes to the powertrain.

Z1 was replaced by DW-1 for the 2011 model year.

 

[smuook]

IMO the fluid isn't doing the job. The whole 6 speed transmission is borderline for torque handling in the Ridgeline truck and Pilot...

This is the best explanation that could explain what I experienced on shift issues, heat problems, and actions I've taken to mitigate (nicely written btw and better than I could explain). Again, i don't have any conclusive evidence other than to say my issues have been mitigated after using Amsoil synthetic and I no longer obsess over the transmission. Maybe it will fail anyway, who knows. Right now I'm enjoying driving the truck.