[F6Hawk]

I didn’t see a weight spec. But if it’s like their other outboard offerings it will be HEAVY. They should have focussed on reducing the weight of their other engines, imo. The 350 hp category is already crowded with very worthy engines.

Honda BF350 Outboard Engine | 350 hp 4 Stroke Motor Specs and Features

The Honda BF200, BF225, and BF250 are 4-stroke 200 hp, 225 hp, and 250 hp marine engines. These powerful, quiet outboard motors are ideal for pontoons, center console, multi-hull, bay boats, and more.

marine.honda.com

 

[longboat]

HondaPro Jason said in a Facebook post:



Land? I don't see that word in Honda's press release.

I've been thinking about this, and i suspect Honda will eventually use this engine in one of their vehicles. Why else would they give it a 60° design with 30° offset crank? That design is to make the engine as compact as possible. One could argue that it is to be able to hang more outboards on a transom, but i think it also lends itself to fitting into a compact engine bay.

Honda's normally-aspirated engine designs, when designed for cleanliness (emissions) and durability (e.g., commercial use), seem to top out around 50hp/cylinder. That equates to 200hp for I4, 300hp for V6 and 400hp for V8.

Most folks would speculate that turbos are the answer. Turbos (on gasoline engines) are great in many light-duty applications, but fall down under continuous commercial duty (high fuel usage and increased cylinder pressures during high-rpm usage). As examples, Ford and Chevy both have powerful turbocharged engines they use in their light-duty trucks, but will not offer them in their HD pickups. Moreover, Ford recently came out with a new large-displacement V8 for their HD trucks, and GM is working on something similar.

Toyota has taken the hybrid approach to get more power in their Tundra, for now. Honda doesn't seem to have a good hybrid solution that can stand up to towing, and hybrids are not ideal in the outboard-driven boating market. Therefore, larger displacement is the obvious path forward for Honda when it comes to power and longevity in situations of efficient continuous high-output duty (such as typical outboard use, or for towing heavy loads).

IF Honda wanted to offer increased towing capacity, they would want to stick with a NA engine, and probably stronger iVTM clutches (or no iVTM at all). Or, they could offer their V8 powerplant to other applications, perhaps to GM as part of their current alliance, ala Saturn Vue. Just spit-balling here....

 

[ISO Truck]

I've been thinking about this, and i suspect Honda will eventually use this engine in one of their vehicles. Why else would they give it a 60° design with 30° offset crank? That design is to make the engine as compact as possible. One could argue that it is to be able to hang more outboards on a transom, but i think it also lends itself to fitting into a compact engine bay.

Honda's normally-aspirated engine designs, when designed for cleanliness (emissions) and durability (e.g., commercial use), seem to top out around 50hp/cylinder. That equates to 200hp for I4, 300hp for V6 and 400hp for V8.

Most folks would speculate that turbos are the answer. Turbos (on gasoline engines) are great in many light-duty applications, but fall down under continuous commercial duty (high fuel usage and increased cylinder pressures during high-rpm usage). As examples, Ford and Chevy both have powerful turbocharged engines they use in their light-duty trucks, but will not offer them in their HD pickups. Moreover, Ford recently came out with a new large-displacement V8 for their HD trucks, and GM is working on something similar.

Toyota has taken the hybrid approach to get more power in their Tundra, for now. Honda doesn't seem to have a good hybrid solution that can stand up to towing, and hybrids are not ideal in the outboard-driven boating market. Therefore, larger displacement is the obvious path forward for Honda when it comes to power and longevity in situations of efficient continuous high-output duty (such as typical outboard use, or for towing heavy loads).

IF Honda wanted to offer increased towing capacity, they would want to stick with a NA engine, and probably stronger iVTM clutches (or no iVTM at all). Or, they could offer their V8 powerplant to other applications, perhaps to GM as part of their current alliance, ala Saturn Vue. Just spit-balling here....

Stop teasing us. Putting that V8 in a beefed up G3 Ridgeline would be a home run in my book.

And I have to say, it is highly unusual for Honda to create a single-purpose engine. Their m.o. is to develop an engine then get an r.o.i. by sticking it in as many applications as possible. So, your wondering whether they have other plans for this engine is consistent with their past practices.

 

[wh500special]

I like these thoughts. Amortizing development in an automotive application probably comes much more easily than in smaller market segments like marine

I’m not familiar with Honda’s offerings outside their cars, generators, and outboard motors. Do they offer iterations of their 2 and 3 cylinder engines as in their smaller outboards elsewhere?

Is there anything else that is magical about the 60 degree V angle? For instance something like commonality with their V6 lines for casting or machining the bores perhaps.

I would think an engine format proven in the marine environment might find success in automotive if only because the marine use case is quite severe. I’ve seen some threads on some boating forums of sitings of large unmarked outboards on boats being tested in the vicinity of Honda’s proving docks for a while so I am betting these things have already been accumulating some hours in the wild.

Steve

 

[Soichiro1906]

It's fun to dream

Is there a half ton Honda pickup (or full sized SUV) in the works to utilize this new V8? I'd welcome something like that for sure, especially higher tow ratings.

 

[longboat]

I like these thoughts. Amortizing development in an automotive application probably comes much more easily than in smaller market segments like marine

I’m not familiar with Honda’s offerings outside their cars, generators, and outboard motors. Do they offer iterations of their 2 and 3 cylinder engines as in their smaller outboards elsewhere?

Is there anything else that is magical about the 60 degree V angle? For instance something like commonality with their V6 lines for casting or machining the bores perhaps.

I would think an engine format proven in the marine environment might find success in automotive if only because the marine use case is quite severe. I’ve seen some threads on some boating forums of sitings of large unmarked outboards on boats being tested in the vicinity of Honda’s proving docks for a while so I am betting these things have already been accumulating some hours in the wild.

Steve

Honda's little engines are everywhere, especially their single cylinder versions. Pressure washers come to mind, as well as all different kinds of outdoor power equipment, as well as all of Honda's motorcycles, ATVs, SxSs, scooters and snowblowers.

To be sure, Honda has taken a hit from Chinese knockoff engines, which some refer to as Chonda. The Predator engine found at Harbor Freight is a popular one. I think Loncin (LCT?) may be another.

Good point on engine modularity with the V6 tooling...

I agree with you on the marine outboard environment being hard on engines. Those outboards are designed to run near redline all day long, and Honda outboards have racked up in the neighborhood of 8,000-10,000 hours in commercial use.

Folks are worried about running their Ridgeline V6 too hard, when that same engine on a boat can essentially be running 5000 hours at 5500rpm in a full-load environment.

 

[longboat]

It's fun to dream

Is there a half ton Honda pickup (or full sized SUV) in the works to utilize this new V8? I'd welcome something like that for sure, especially higher tow ratings.

Would you buy a Chevy Silverado 1500 if it had a Honda V8?

 

[Soichiro1906]

Would you buy a Chevy Silverado 1500 if it had a Honda V8?

Well, since Ford Taurus SHO used Yamaha engines for awhile I guess anything is possible.

Is that where you think this Honda V8 outboard engine is going to wind up, in GM's half ton lineup?

You said you suspect it will be used in one of Honda's vehicles, which one do you think?

 

[longboat]

Well, since Ford Taurus SHO used Yamaha engines for awhile I guess anything is possible.

Is that where you think this Honda V8 outboard engine is going to wind up, in GM's half ton lineup?

You said you suspect it will be used in one of Honda's vehicles, which one do you think?

I think Honda's large (large for Honda, anyway) truck platform is the most likely recipient of the V8, as they try to match the competition in power and towing. There's a large contingent of buyers out there that prefer NA engines over turbos, and there are fewer and fewer NA engines in the mid-size to light truck size offerings.

The biggest hurdle i see is fitting that thing in a transverse engine bay. A V6 is only three cylinders wide and fits transversely easier than a four-cylinder (or bank of four cylinders). The wider engine may reduce turning radius, which would be a bad thing. Honda would have to move the engine forward or back to maintain steering geometry (perhaps the longer hood design language on the new Pilot has something to do with that?). An alternative would be to add rear-wheel-steering, but i don't think we'll get that lucky.

As for putting that little V8 in a GM, i think GM would not bat an eye dropping one into a Coloranyon or Silverado, in a longitudinal configuration. They did it with the Vue, and Honda has a longstanding reputation with loaning out their engines to all different brands and applications. Even the "real truck" guys admit Honda has the best engines, they just don't like how Honda packages them in vehicles.

 

[ISO Truck]

It’s probably more likely to end up in an Acura model. But as others said, it’s fun to dream…

 

[longboat]

It’s probably more likely to end up in an Acura model. But as others said, it’s fun to dream…

That's possible, but i see Acura as leaning more toward electrification. ICE cannot compete with EV when it comes to acceleration, speed and handling, as well as packaging.

Where ICE can compete is in heavy lifting (i.e., towing). Acura doesn't really cater to the towing crowd as much as Honda could.

Historically, Honda has not dealt with towing to a large degree. Their own research showed that mid-size truck buyers didn't tow over 3500lbs very often, and rarely towed over 5000lbs. However, that research was probably two decades ago. Since then, utility trailers have gotten very popular (as have boats), and the ATVs, UTVs and SxSs that are being towed on those utility trailers have gotten larger and heavier. Nowadays, it is not difficult to exceed 5000lbs when Joe Homeowner wants to tow a trailer (3000lbs) with a Honda Pioneer 1000 (1800lbs) in the bed. What if they want two UTVs in the trailer?

I think Honda knows this. They've discontinued manufacturing lawn mowers and turned that factory capacity into building SxSs and UTVs because of market demand. Folks will need more towing capacity to safely tow their toys, and Honda does not have a good in-house answer for that right now.

Long story short - they can either build more towing capacity into a few of their models or trims, or give that market up to the competition. In the latter scenario, i'd hate to have to drive a BoF truck, but if i had to, i would prefer one with a Honda engine in it.

As long as we're dreaming, my ideal truck would be a Honda Ridgeline with their V8 longitudinally-mounted and a ZF 8-speed transmission behind it, 7k towing and IFS/IRS on a unibody platform. So far, only FCA has come close to this configuration with their Jeep Cherokees of old, extending into modern Jeep SUVs and their modern Durango. They just have not perfected the implementation, nor have they brought such a package to the pickup truck world.... yet.

 

[Soichiro1906]

While the world is waging a war against displacement (some countries even offering penalties for designs over a couple liters) and hybrid power being all the rage, Honda is going to go against the grain and put a 5 liter NA V8 into their next Ridgeline.

That's a heck of a headline but I'll dream along with ya. I'd buy one for sure! Even if the MPG dropped a few digits, it'd be okay because gasoline will only be $2.10 a gallon during REM sleep and the new Ridgeline will have at least a 26 gallon fuel tank. It would ideally have warm/cool mirror lights in the sun visors as my wife, Cindy Crawford, would find that useful when applying makeup.

 

[longboat]

Since it's a land-based operation, it will have VCM, so will run in four-cylinder mode most of the time. It will probably run on four cylinders in many more cases than the three cylinders mode in the Ridgeline now, since the 4-banger will be able to torque through more scenarios.

MPG might just stay the same (or even better), especially since this is an all-new engine, and the one that is currently in the Ridgeline is based on a 26-year-old design. Honda will make up (and improve) their CAFE with all of their small vehicles going EV or hybrid in the meantime.

The only real efficiency penalty between four cylinders and eight cylinders is increased friction from more moving components. If talking resulting MPG, then that's assuming displacement is the same in both engines. As discussed above, Honda is running out of competitive power when it comes to NA displacement per cylinder. Sure, they could build a 5.0L four-cylinder, but it will be much harder to make it clean-burning, and it won't run as smoothly, especially when VCM drops it to two cylinders.

 

[Soichiro1906]

I think I'm going to pick up a bottle of Relaxium Sleep so I can reach the DEEPEST of sleep stages needed to experience these visions.

Not only has Honda bucked the industry-wide trend by announcing this V8 outboard will be coming to the next generation Ridgeline but they've managed to make a generational leap in ICE design to gain more NA efficiency per cubic inch than ever before, leaving the automotive world STUNNED.

I've read three articles about the outboard so far and each one says Honda has no plans to bring it to their vehicles.

I can't find anything on a need at GM to supplant their torque-rich 2.7T in that application.

For now, I'm leaning towards what the articles say and that this new V8 was designed for marine outboards to better compete with the V8 designs of their competitors. But it was nice to partake in this trip with you. My supermodel wife tore up the prenup so I'm a certified multimillionaire now. She even put my very own AMEX Black inside the recent birthday card she gave me.

I like it here.

 

[ISO Truck]

Yup. It’s all fantasy, even if well-reasoned.

But I think we can all agree that Honda’s 3.5L automotive V6 has overstayed its welcome. Imo, the engine/transmission combo in every generation/version of the Ridgeline is unquestionably its weakest link. In our truck we get the same hardware as the minivan, the suv, and the four-door sedan. One size fits all. It’s the Honda way. Yay!

If Honda has no plans to use this V8 elsewhere, then this may be Honda Marine’s last gasp. They sell in very low volume and are industry laggards in both power and weight. Much like Evinrude. Who by the way made a big splash with several new ETEC G2 outboard models, and then promptly announced they were completely shutting down production.

It is very difficult to justify development costs with such low sales volume. Eventually the bean counters audit the numbers and realize they are throwing good money after bad, siphoning resources that can be more profitably applied elsewhere.

 

[longboat]

Honda - The Power of Dreams

 

[john brown]

Honda pioneered the way with 4 stroke outboards and I have owned several of them, the commercial guys use them, however in my experience Honda was heavy heavy, overweight. And even though they advertised the HP it really did not stand up to others in the same HP , they just did not make that HP at the prop, but they did last, the Coast Guard used them for years until the other manufactures cried foul. then we started seeing some blue motors. 350HP should be interesting if the boat can float it. Outboards are definately advantageous over inboards in today's world, what is the cost?

 

[zroger73]

Meanwhile, during the transition to silent EVs, the classic rumble is about to disappear from the Ram 1500 as it replaces its V8 with an I6.

Stellantis Media - New 2025 Ram 1500 With More Powerful, More Fuel-efficient Hurricane Engine Family Unveiled

The 2025 Ram 1500 makes its global debut today, featuring an all-new 3.0-liter Hurricane engine family that brings the Ram lineup even more standard power, more performance and improved fuel efficiency.

media.stellantisnorthamerica.com

 

[ISO Truck]

I would take a straight six any day. Smooth and powerful. From the press release:

“ The all-new 3.0-liter Hurricane engine is rated at 420 horsepower and 469 lb.-ft. of torque, while the High Output engine is rated at 540 horsepower and 521 lb.-ft. of torque. Capability includes a maximum towing capacity of 11,580 pounds, a maximum payload of 2,300 pounds and up to 24 inches of water fording.”

That kind of power and capability shows how antiquated Honda’s 3.5L V6 truly is. Honda has been left behind.

 

[longboat]

Meanwhile, during the transition to silent EVs, the classic rumble is about to disappear from the Ram 1500 as it replaces its V8 with an I6.

Stellantis Media - New 2025 Ram 1500 With More Powerful, More Fuel-efficient Hurricane Engine Family Unveiled

The 2025 Ram 1500 makes its global debut today, featuring an all-new 3.0-liter Hurricane engine family that brings the Ram lineup even more standard power, more performance and improved fuel efficiency.

media.stellantisnorthamerica.com

Their RamCharger is pretty cool, though, if it's reasonably affordable.

I'm thinking their Hemi V8 will continue in the HD trucks. Else, they will be the first in many decades to offer a gasoline six-cylinder in an HD truck. Being a Straight Six, they might just pull it off.