VCM Engines.... Muzzle or don’t Muzzle??

Brock · Dec 1, 2019

I’m really contemplating installing a VCMMuzzler or just leaving it alone on my 2019 Ridgeline RTL-E. What does everyone who knows about this think about it? Pros and Cons of VCM that I know of.

Pros. Gas mileage (maybe 1 mpg better average)
Any other pros??? I don’t think so....

Cons.
vibrations - vibration in general is hard on parts.
Expensive Active Engine Mount Failure.
Oil consumption issues and/or possible sludge
Piston Ring Failure
Fouled Spark Plugs
VCM activation/deactivation can be felt at times.
Any other Cons? let us know!

I have 200 miles only on my Ridgeline as I just got it. Haven’t even felt VCM kick in once... Maybe takes a break in period before VCM starts to activate... I however felt it consistently in my 2017 Ridgeline I traded in.....

2017 Purchased with 12,000 miles. Noticed vibration and engine shutters practically day 1

2019 Purchased with 20 miles on it. Now have 200 miles. Haven’t noticed it at all!

By not installing a VCMMuzzler I wonder if I’ll start to notice these vibrations over time or if the problems related to VCM have been resolved by now.

Griz · Dec 1, 2019

I have 50k on mine and don’t see the need.

lacartus · Dec 2, 2019

I have 30k miles on mine and see no need

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

olgzr · Dec 2, 2019

I have 22K on mine. I’ve felt a vibration that might have been the VCM once. I have no oil consumption between oil changes. When I bought my Ridgeline, I was planning on waiting until I saw a need for the defeat device, then buy it. I’ve not seen a need so far.

MtMan · Dec 2, 2019

We muzzled both of ours after 1000 mile break-in period. Its more a peace of mind deal for us. 1 mpg hit is no problem. If we planed to trade these off every 3 years I would say don't bother, but we are expecting 15 years out of these if lucky like our last batch. The major concern for now is if our lottery number comes up on the fuel injectors. But we have the extended warranties that hopefully cover that day.

wjfyfe · Dec 2, 2019

We've only owned our Ridgeline for six months but after reading most of the threads, A case has not yet been made that deactivating the VCM in the 2019 provides any real benefit.

Bill

rowlandphysics · Dec 2, 2019

I have a 2017 with 53,000 miles. I can’t feel it. No oil use between changes. If my window is rolled down, at very light throttle I can hear the change in exhaust note when VCM activates. I see no need for a muzzler.

CentexG2 · Dec 2, 2019

Brock said:
2017 Purchased with 12,000 miles. Noticed vibration and engine shutters practically day 1

Curious, how many miles did your '17 have when you left it? Did you actually experience any of the 'mechanical failures' on your list of 'cons' with that 'un-muzzled' RL?

Brock said:
I have 200 miles only on my Ridgeline as I just got it. Haven’t even felt VCM kick in once... Maybe takes a break in period before VCM starts to activate...

Never read anything suggesting that there's an initial period of 'VCM defeat'. FWIW, as a matter of curiosity I installed a ScanGauge programmed to display VCM activation status at about 1000 miles on my '19 RL; before and after I rarely sense the VCM kicking-in without looking at that indicator (still 'young' at ~4k miles now).

Brock said:
Cons.
vibrations - vibration in general is hard on parts.
Expensive Active Engine Mount Failure.
Oil consumption issues and/or possible sludge
Piston Ring Failure
Fouled Spark Plugs
.....

While not discounting the theory behind each of those oft-mentioned possibilities, I've yet to find anecdotes in the many ROC VCM threads presenting compelling evidence that those problems actually manifest as an outcome attributable to the current VCM implementation.

Brock said:
Pros. Gas mileage (maybe 1 mpg better average)
Any other pros??? I don’t think so....

Not altering the OE system avoids any possibility that Honda might have the least cause to not cover a warranty repair based on provisions of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act relating to consequential effects of a modification. Not saying that it would or they would, but it is a possibility, perhaps as real as some of the cons you list.

IMO it's also reasonable to consider how long you realistically plan to have your RL? From a purely self-interest standpoint, if you don't expect to have your RL long enough for some of those long-term possible 'cons' to manifest … well, why worry / why mess with it?

>>>

Not gonna opine if I think 'VCM muzzling' is helpful / harmful ... just offering some of the things I looked at in my consideration which might enter into your consideration.

avi8or · Dec 3, 2019

I setup the Scangauge X Gauge for the VCM servo. It is rarely on unless I am coasting down hill.

I don’t see the need for a muzzled.

Farther · Dec 3, 2019

I've got about 26,000 on my 2019 and don't feel the need for one.

Brock · Dec 4, 2019

CentexG2 said:
Curious, how many miles did your '17 have when you left it? Did you actually experience any of the 'mechanical failures' on your list of 'cons' with that 'un-muzzled' RL?

Never read anything suggesting that there's an initial period of 'VCM defeat'. FWIW, as a matter of curiosity I installed a ScanGauge programmed to display VCM activation status at about 1000 miles on my '19 RL; before and after I rarely sense the VCM kicking-in without looking at that indicator (still 'young' at ~4k miles now).

While not discounting the theory behind each of those oft-mentioned possibilities, I've yet to find anecdotes in the many ROC VCM threads presenting compelling evidence that those problems actually manifest as an outcome attributable to the current VCM implementation.

Not altering the OE system avoids any possibility that Honda might have the least cause to not cover a warranty repair based on provisions of the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act relating to consequential effects of a modification. Not saying that it would or they would, but it is a possibility, perhaps as real as some of the cons you list.

IMO it's also reasonable to consider how long you realistically plan to have your RL? From a purely self-interest standpoint, if you don't expect to have your RL long enough for some of those long-term possible 'cons' to manifest … well, why worry / why mess with it?

Not gonna opine if I think 'VCM muzzling' is helpful / harmful ... just offering some of the things I looked at in my consideration which might enter into your consideration.

On the 2017 before I traded it in I had put 15,000 more miles on it so traded it in just under 30,000 miles. I couldn’t tell you if it was the tranny or VCM for sure with this but think VCM. You could feel the vibrations at cruising speeds from time to time (not related to gear changes) and it took me pushing down on the gas petal a bit harder to get it to go away when it would happen. I know the vehicle had some hard shifts especially downshifts which is transmission related. Funny as the 2019 so far feels like a completely different transmission. I can barely feel the shift changes up or down and they are super smooth. I’m also yet to feel any vibration that I would think would be VCM related either. Makes me think the 2017 is bound to have issues pop up for whoever will own it now and I’m thinking the transmission for sure. As for the Cons with VCM these are just possible Cons I’ve read about. Funny how Honda will do VCM to gain 1mpg maybe in gas mileage and that is the only Pro to VCM..... The possible downsides make this VCM thing not worth it. If it was 3-5 MPG then yeah makes more sense but 1mpg and most who have installed a VCMMuzzler say less savings in gas mileage. More like .5mpg better.

Brock · Dec 4, 2019

wjfyfe said:
We've only owned our Ridgeline for six months but after reading most of the threads, A case has not yet been made that deactivating the VCM in the 2019 provides any real benefit.

Bill

Hey Bill. Does VCM even really have any true benefit? 1mpg savings is the only possible benefit. The possible Cons I’ve read about is very interesting! What interests me the most is the Active Engine Mount Failures. I’ve read about enough of those that needed to be done and the only reason these vehicles even have Active Engine Mounts at all is because of VCM. No VCM then no need for expensive Active Engine Mounts. Not a lot of these Ridgelines over the 100k miles yet and I would not be surprised if the ones that are there are already having active engine mount issues but who knows at this point in time!

CentexG2 · Dec 4, 2019

@Brock, it really sounds like you've reached a personal conclusion and need to just go ahead and muzzle (again, No Worries)

There's already plenty of threads here debating the pros / cons (site search is your friend)

YetiXing · Dec 4, 2019

Only about 1,000 miles on my 2019. But I haven’t felt anything...
So far I can’t tell if vcm is active or not...?

CentexG2 · Dec 4, 2019

YetiXing said:
Only about 1,000 miles on my 2019. But I haven’t felt anything...
So far I can’t tell if vcm is active or not...?

It's working as intended

CentexG2 said:
Never read anything suggesting that there's an initial period of 'VCM defeat'. FWIW, as a matter of curiosity I installed a ScanGauge programmed to display VCM activation status at about 1000 miles on my '19 RL; before and after I rarely sense the VCM kicking-in without looking at that indicator (still 'young' at ~4k miles now).

jlr1956 · Dec 4, 2019

MtMan said:
We muzzled both of ours after 1000 mile break-in period. Its more a peace of mind deal for us. 1 mpg hit is no problem. If we planed to trade these off every 3 years I would say don't bother, but we are expecting 15 years out of these if lucky like our last batch. The major concern for now is if our lottery number comes up on the fuel injectors. But we have the extended warranties that hopefully cover that day.

Hey MtMan,
Do you leave the VCMMuzzlers on when you take it in for service? And does the dealer say anything about them?
My biggest concern would be the claim by them that I have voided the warranty?

ibjames31 · Dec 4, 2019

When you people are feeling vibrations, have you tried turning off the AC? I sometimes think I feel vibrations and it's actually the AC working, when I turn it off, the vibration goes away

Antares · Dec 5, 2019

When new, I couldn't feel the VCM on my 2017. But it keeps getting louder with more shake (I'm at 35,000 miles). Dealer says it's normal. My father-in-laws 2018 does it as well but not as pronounced. I don't feel very good about this system. I usually keep my vehicles for 100k miles or more so this is a concern for me. The prior versions of VCM do not have a good history (class action lawsuit). Much to my wife's annoyance, I've talked about trading for a Tacoma which has it's own issues and not nearly as fun to drive or comfortable as the Ridgeline. But the lack of a turbo and any kind of VCM type system on the Tacoma appeals to me. Hard to give up the RL.

YetiXing · Dec 5, 2019

Just a thought. I’m not a VCM expert. So it’s all new to me. But from what I’ve read, the electronic motor mounts play a part in counter acting the vcm movements/vibration/shutter. Any chance that it could be a failed mount or mount that is not doing its job?
Just a thought although not cheap, could be part o the reason your feeling it now? Just a thought. Not sure how they test. If it’s visual or if there is a test procedure...

This may be a case for a vcm defeat device? If it is the cause and stopping the vcm from activating could eliminate the problem. ??

On a side note. Anyone ever replace a RL motor mount themselves... or is this a big job. I’ve pulled motor mounts on my previous Honda’s, for maintenance such as timing belts. But none electronic like these new vehicles.

nickmv · Dec 5, 2019

4cyl Hondas vibrate far more than 6cyl's in 3cyl mode. Anyone who's had a 4 banger Accord, Civic, CRV etc can attest to this, esp at idle.

So I feel some of this is pretty overstated.

VCM Engines.... Muzzle or don’t Muzzle??

Brock

Griz

lacartus

olgzr

MtMan

wjfyfe

rowlandphysics

CentexG2

avi8or

Farther

Brock

Brock

CentexG2

YetiXing

CentexG2

jlr1956

ibjames31

Antares

YetiXing

nickmv

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