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Premium Gas recommended by Honda when towing

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#21 ·
If you comb over the posts by Kodiak from 15 years ago (note: Kodiak was the Chief Engineer for the G1), you'll see that he recommended premium fuel for towing. The gist of the conversations was

1) if you wanted a performance increase, premium fuel (at least in the G1) would give you a 10hp increase, equivalent to Acura MDX specs,

2) premium fuel could increase fuel economy when the engine was under heavy load, such as when towing heavy or in hills,

3) premium fuel did nothing for fuel economy when running the vehicle normally (e.g. - under light load),

4) premium fuel can increase torque under heavy loads, which would be beneficial when towing heavy or towing in hills.

This was all for the G1. No one knows for sure if it carries over to the G2, but common sense would say that it should, for the most part.
 
#22 ·
longboat said:
No one knows for sure if it carries over to the G2, but common sense would say that it should, for the most part.
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Given how direct injection differs from port injection, I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't as much to gain with direct injection.

 
#23 ·
Premium fuel burns cooler, less chance of detonation which is hard on pistons, rods, valves, etc. So especially on a hot day, under a engine load that may make your engine run hotter, a higher octane that burns slightly cooler than lower octane will reduce the chance of pre-ignition and "pinging". Normally, the Ridgeline's PCM would retard the timing if it detects detonation, so in theory you don't need higher octane, but retarding the timing also slightly reduces power (HP), so you can maintain your rated horsepower with premium fuel, towing, especially on a hot day. But I would doubt it would make 10 HP magically appear. It might keep your PCM from dialing back ignition timing and losing 10 HP.
 
#24 ·
Seems like I remember the owners manual in our 3.5L V6 RAV4 recommends/suggests premium grade when towing.
 
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#25 ·
t321sg said:
Premium fuel burns cooler, less chance of detonation which is hard on pistons, rods, valves, etc. So especially on a hot day, under a engine load that may make your engine run hotter, a higher octane that burns slightly cooler than lower octane will reduce the chance of pre-ignition and "pinging".
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This is a common misconception. There is no difference in the flame temperature, flame speed, or energy content between regular and premium. Premium is simply formulated to better resist compression ignition.
 
#27 ·
H3 Guy said:
I only run premium, ethanol-free 91 octane fuel in everything I own, including all vehicles, motorcycles, lawn mowers, snow-blowers, and 2-stroke engines. Selective use of quality fuel additives ensures fuel stabilization while any water is incapsulated and removed through normal combustion. The added cost, along with superior synthetic lubricants, is nominal for me as I sleep exceptionally well at night (especially during -35C/-31F). How much would you pay, to not have to listen to a crying baby every night?
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Where do you get ethanol-free gas - is it hard to find, or fairly common/just have to pay attention? I'd like to do this, if I can readily find fuel sources.

Side note - I've read numerous times that ethanol-free avoids big long-term issues with outboard boat motors, and gas labeled "marine fuel" is E-free. We have a pontoon boat on a small (300 acre) private lake with a fuel dock, and I was stunned to learn that the fuel there has ethanol. Learned (again) a lesson about assumptions.
 
#28 ·
SmilinSteve said:
Standard regular gas in Denver and other higher altitude places is 85 octane, so specifying octane without taking into account altitude seems like a mistake.
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Does that mean lower-octane gas is the right choice for driving at higher altitude - maybe the air/fuel mixture can get too rich due to less oxygen in the air?

TIA
 
#29 ·
Pleease said:
Does that mean lower-octane gas is the right choice for driving at higher altitude - maybe the air/fuel mixture can get too rich due to less oxygen in the air?

TIA
Click to expand...
Feedback fuel systems won't allow that to happen. If there's not enough oxygen, it'll just reduce the amount of fuel being injected resulting in less power the higher you go.
 
#30 ·
Pleease said:
Where do you get ethanol-free gas - is it hard to find, or fairly common/just have to pay attention? I'd like to do this, if I can readily find fuel sources.

Side note - I've read numerous times that ethanol-free avoids big long-term issues with outboard boat motors, and gas labeled "marine fuel" is E-free. We have a pontoon boat on a small (300 acre) private lake with a fuel dock, and I was stunned to learn that the fuel there has ethanol. Learned (again) a lesson about assumptions.
Click to expand...
Most newer outboards handle e10 just fine, but if you have an older boat, you can run into problems even with a newer outboard. The issue is that ethanol is a "cleaner" and can cause old built-up crud on the inside of the gas tank to dislodge and plug the fuel filters and fuel lines. Some outboards even have multiple fuel filters that can get plugged. I presume all the same is true for inboard and I/O motors, as well.

Also, older fuel lines may dry and crack prematurely if they were not designed to run with ethanol.

Mercury Marine recommended against using ethanol for a long time. I don't know if they still recommend against it, however.

Here in SD, some gas stations offer 87-octane ethanol-free, especially Shell stations and Casey's stations. However, go over into MN or IA and it is a LOT harder to find e-free. It's kinda funny because as you drive from MN into SD, there are huge billboards advertising e-free gas in Sioux Falls.

You can try pure-gas.org, except most of the stations they list are for premium fuel only. The low-octane e-free can be a lot harder to find. I consider myself fortunate to have it here, inside the edge of corn country.
 
#31 ·
It's exceedingly difficult to find ethanol-free gas in my area and when I do, the cost is far greater than any savings in fuel economy would yield.

I've yet to experience any problems due to "bad gas" or ethanol in any gasoline engine I've owned since E10 became the norm, so I have virtually no motivation to seek it out.

I do use STA-BIL in my "mower gas", but I can't say whether or not that's why I've never had a problem.
 
#32 ·
Pleease said:
Where do you get ethanol-free gas - is it hard to find, or fairly common/just have to pay attention? I'd like to do this, if I can readily find fuel sources....
Click to expand...
Actually, you are likely to pass by some everyday. Some stations have a single pump (usually out on the far end) which dispenses ethanol-free (not to be confused with automobile diesel fuel pumps, which get the same kind of location!)
Here are a couple sites which show locations for ethanol-free gas:
Pure-Gas.org
BuyRealGas
Many small-engine manufacturers specify ethanol-free gas because of ethanol's tendancy to absorb moisture from the air.

(PS, before you get too excited about switching over to ethanol-free for your daily-driver, it runs about a dollar per gallon higher than regular in my neck of the woods. Some folks argue that the improved power and mpg makes up for the difference - I have no opinion on that.)
 
#33 ·
Pure 87-octane runs about 30 cents more per gallon compared to e10, where I live. I buy the pure gas only essentially for the principles of the matter.

I would likely still buy pure gas only even if it were a dollar more than e-10. I'm not sure what the price difference would have to be to get me to use e-10.... maybe $2-$3/gallon cheaper?
 
#34 ·
longboat said:
If you comb over the posts by Kodiak from 15 years ago (note: Kodiak was the Chief Engineer for the G1), you'll see that he recommended premium fuel for towing. The gist of the conversations was

1) if you wanted a performance increase, premium fuel (at least in the G1) would give you a 10hp increase, equivalent to Acura MDX specs,

2) premium fuel could increase fuel economy when the engine was under heavy load, such as when towing heavy or in hills,

3) premium fuel did nothing for fuel economy when running the vehicle normally (e.g. - under light load),

4) premium fuel can increase torque under heavy loads, which would be beneficial when towing heavy or towing in hills.

This was all for the G1. No one knows for sure if it carries over to the G2, but common sense would say that it should, for the most part.
Click to expand...
To provide a bit more context, here is a post by Kodiak in this regard:

"the peak torque and power gain with premium fuel is not the greatest benefit for using this fuel. The biggest benefit is honestly at torque converter stall temperature (mid-speed torque band). This is also the RPM range you are frequently using when cruising and is therefore the greatest merit for fuel economy. If this is your sole justification – it will be difficult to financially justify. The key merits are in power, “g-feeling” or seat of the pants acceleration response at ¼ throttle, shift busy (how much it un-locks the torque converter or down shifts), and of course towing (which is essential at maximum load which is why it is recommended when towing).

Premium fuel increases the peak torque at 4500 RPM from 32.4 kg-m to 34 kg-m. The torque at the torque converter stall speed is increased from 30kg-m to 32.4 kg-m (~2400 RPM). Premium fuel in this speed range improves the torque margin which will increase the time spent in 5th gear with the torque converter in lock-up mode. This will result in improved fuel economy depending on the grade and temperature conditions (low temperature is good for power – but bad for aero). The ignition timing is also advanced further in this mode which reduces the fuel consumption (leaner burn rate). The greater the grade, the more the difference in improved fuel economy due to the increased power.

Peak power is at 5740 RPM – 247 HP with Regular fuel. Peak power with premium fuel is approximately 258 HP (However, this is only true if you are wearing your copper bracelet. I am offering those for $29.99 for anyone that is interested in this tremendous opportunity.). The torque falls off at peak power between 5,000 and 6,000 RPM. This is operating mode is usually at WOT under extreme acceleration. "

www.ridgelineownersclub.com

Cold Air Intake Systems and Low-Restriction Air Filters...

From the Honda Service News, provided to us by csimo. Cold air intake systems and low-restriction air filters are hot aftermarket accessories. Popular among the import tuner crowd, these items may improve engine performance by letting the engine breathe more deeply, reducing the intake air...
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#35 ·
Kevo said:
Well, it will be interesting to see what shows up in the 2021 manual.
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The 2021 manual makes no recommendation for "premium fuel" in the towing section of the owners manual. Furthermore, the "fuel recommendation" section of the manual simply states that "pump octane number 87 or higher" be used. The manual does mention that Honda endorses the use of "Top Tier Detergent Gasoline where available".
 
#36 ·
Pleease said:
Does that mean lower-octane gas is the right choice for driving at higher altitude - maybe the air/fuel mixture can get too rich due to less oxygen in the air?

TIA
Click to expand...
Lower octane gas is usable because compression is lower at higher altitude since the air is thinner. That doesn't mean you need lower octane.
 
#37 ·
I'm sure the 3.5 is equipped with a knock sensor, like most modern engines. The use of premium fuel may allow the engine to run with more spark advance without knocking than it does with regular, thus generating slightly more power in certain rpm ranges. A turbocharged engine may also be able to increase boost with higher octane fuel, and the power difference can be significant. Ford has a habit of publishing power ratings for their turbocharged engines with premium fuel. The 2.0 turbo in my wife's Escape is rated at 245 hp - with premium fuel. It runs fine on regular, but only produces something like 225 hp.

Classic cars (and snowblowers, etc.) should be fed non-ethanol fuel, but modern cars use materials designed to tolerate ethanol just fine. My current vehicle has consumed e10 for 22 years without any issues that can be attributed to ethanol.
 
#38 ·
If only I knew a guy with a dynoshop in my area. To put all this debate to rest.
So easy to execute a couple of runs with a 1/8 of tank with regular gas. Then fill it up with 93oct and do other runs. That should give you an idea if the G2 is programmed to take advantage of the higher octane gas.

zroger73 said:
Feedback fuel systems won't allow that to happen. If there's not enough oxygen, it'll just reduce the amount of fuel being injected resulting in less power the higher you go.
Click to expand...
Correct. The Mass Airflow Sensor is responsible for measuring the air density.
 
#39 ·
Older thread but I was wondering why premium would be recommended by American Honda but only 87 would be recommended in my 2024 manual. I emailed American Honda and came to the conclusion that somebody at American Honda threw that out on the internet but probably didn't have any idea what they were talking about. Not saying premium is needed or not needed, I don't know. Will try to paste the email chain below:

Thank you for allowing American Honda the opportunity to respond to your message. In regard to these questions, we would have to refer you to the dealerships service team for more recommendations.

Sincerely,
Gloria
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Case #: 14993098

Attention: If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message and notify the sender. Thank you for your cooperation.
--------------- Original Message ---------------

Subject: Re: Case 14993098 - Further Information Required [ ]

Thank you.

Can you please help me understand your recommendation? If the significantly higher priced premium is required to prevent pre detonation while towing I dont understand why it would not also be required to prevent pre detonation while under heavy throttle conditions and not towing or why the premium fuel recommendation would not be in the owners manual if it is something that matters. It would also be very helpful to know what octane rating is meant by premium , 89, 91 and 93 are common locally as well as the 87 regular gas recommended in the owners manual.

On Oct 3, 2024, at 3:54?PM, Honda Customer Service <acs@ahm.honda.com> wrote:





Thank you for allowing American Honda the opportunity to respond to your message.

We recommend premium unleaded fuel for towing the vehicle.

Please reply to this email to if you have any further questions or concerns.

Sincerely,
Gloria
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Case #: 14993098
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