I got the maintenance due soon message on the dash, 15% oil life. I'll be taking it to the dealer for this first oil change (5500 miles). Should I ask for synthetic oil or synthetic blend? When I had the factory tonneau installed when the truck was new, I asked the service advisor which oil they recommend. All he said was "it's up to you". He didn't know what the factory puts in the engine to begin with.
Full synthetic vs. synthetic blend
Darksky
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Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
Not sure I could tell the difference on my 2017 RL because of all the noise the DI engine makes anyway.
You will be fine, but with full synthetic my 2008 engine ran quieter and smoother. I really could hear the difference between synthetic and non synthetic oil.
Not sure I could tell the difference on my 2017 RL because of all the noise the DI engine makes anyway.
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
No Worries... :grin:
And you will be able to drive the similar mileage with syn blend and the MM will pop in about the same amount of time.
No Worries... :grin:
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
Of course, they do not use bottled oil. I saw them draw oil from a barrel so it may only cost them less than $10 for 5 quarts.
Flowers Honda uses Valvoline 0W-20 full synthetic and charges $35 ($30 with coupon). Proctor Honda uses Honda full synthetic and charges $35. These are two Honda dealers near me that I do maintenance with them. Proctor Honda even glued an empty Honda full synthetic oil bottle on their service desk. The glue was definitely not Honda quality -- I picked the bottle up and read fine prints and then realized that I broke the glue bond. The service manager thought I am a ninja:wink:.
Of course, they do not use bottled oil. I saw them draw oil from a barrel so it may only cost them less than $10 for 5 quarts.
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31,951 Posts
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
1. Oil changes have become loss leaders to get people into dealerships where they have the opportunity to upsell other services (tires, filters, brakes, batteries, fluids, etc.). Also, some customers can't help but browse the shiny, new car inventory while they're waiting. Just one new car sale or a $50 installation fee for a cabin air filter that results will pay for a lot of negative-profit oil changes.
2. Honda 0W-20 FS lists for $8.90 per quart and costs the dealer about $6. The list price for a 55-gallon drum of the same oil is $1,628.59 and costs the dealer about $1,000 or about $4.50 per quart. A drum of Sunoco or Sinopec 0W-20 FS costs about $450 or about $2 per quart. $35 will cover the dealer's cost for Honda oil and filter and the 15 minutes of time it takes the $10/hr. employee to perform the oil change, but doesn't leave any room for profit.
1. Oil changes have become loss leaders to get people into dealerships where they have the opportunity to upsell other services (tires, filters, brakes, batteries, fluids, etc.). Also, some customers can't help but browse the shiny, new car inventory while they're waiting. Just one new car sale or a $50 installation fee for a cabin air filter that results will pay for a lot of negative-profit oil changes.
2. Honda 0W-20 FS lists for $8.90 per quart and costs the dealer about $6. The list price for a 55-gallon drum of the same oil is $1,628.59 and costs the dealer about $1,000 or about $4.50 per quart. A drum of Sunoco or Sinopec 0W-20 FS costs about $450 or about $2 per quart. $35 will cover the dealer's cost for Honda oil and filter and the 15 minutes of time it takes the $10/hr. employee to perform the oil change, but doesn't leave any room for profit.
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53 Posts
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
It says on the invoice they used qty5 of a part# 127075 description 0W20. Wonder if that 127075 is the Honda part number for their official oil.
It says on the invoice they used qty5 of a part# 127075 description 0W20. Wonder if that 127075 is the Honda part number for their official oil.
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31,951 Posts
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
08798-9049 for a 55-gallon drum
08798-9037 for a quart
127075 could be their in-house part number for a quart of Honda-branded oil from a 55-gallon drum or it could be their or their supplier's part number for bulk oil.
Also, the correct quantity should be 5.7 quarts from a metered dispenser or 6 quarts if they're pouring from quart bottles.
The part numbers for Honda Genuine Ultimate Full Synthetic 0W-20 are:
08798-9049 for a 55-gallon drum
08798-9037 for a quart
127075 could be their in-house part number for a quart of Honda-branded oil from a 55-gallon drum or it could be their or their supplier's part number for bulk oil.
Also, the correct quantity should be 5.7 quarts from a metered dispenser or 6 quarts if they're pouring from quart bottles.
1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
I talked with Honda today and they advised that Honda doesn’t have a full synthetic oil and Honda recommends their synthetic blend in all of their newer vehicles.
I got my first change done elsewhere (not at the dealer) and it was full synthetic. I don’t know what to do now that I’m due for a second oil change (reason I called Honda today). I might just go with the synthetic blend.
Makes you not sure who to believe because a quick internet search and I find Honda full synthetic. Who knows.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I talked with Honda today and they advised that Honda doesn’t have a full synthetic oil and Honda recommends their synthetic blend in all of their newer vehicles.
I got my first change done elsewhere (not at the dealer) and it was full synthetic. I don’t know what to do now that I’m due for a second oil change (reason I called Honda today). I might just go with the synthetic blend.
Makes you not sure who to believe because a quick internet search and I find Honda full synthetic. Who knows.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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437 Posts
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
There are no "conventional" 0w-20 or 5w20 these are group 3 oils.
"synthetic oil" is a widely defined term most often what this means is a group 3 or sometimes called Group3+ hydro cracked oils then they are aren't fully man made but are labeled synthetic or fully synthetic by some but truly aren't. Additionally the fischer tropsch refinement also called GTL or gas to liquid seems to be a "3+" this is also available in varying % as a blend Pennzoil platinum was the first guys to tout this I can recall.
These group 3 oils are often blended with group 4 to offer very high or ""extended protection blends like 15K
A Group 4's or manmade PAO formulation are synthesized differently and considered the top ranking of what definable as synthetic. . Oils like Mobil ones annual protection (20K) have a very high percent of PAO in them but are still blended with group 3+.
If someone says fully synthetic they should be able to answer how much PAO in the blend.
You can look up the honda conoco formulation at the PQIA website.
http://pqiadata.org/Honda_0W20.html
UD
There are no "conventional" 0w-20 or 5w20 these are group 3 oils.
"synthetic oil" is a widely defined term most often what this means is a group 3 or sometimes called Group3+ hydro cracked oils then they are aren't fully man made but are labeled synthetic or fully synthetic by some but truly aren't. Additionally the fischer tropsch refinement also called GTL or gas to liquid seems to be a "3+" this is also available in varying % as a blend Pennzoil platinum was the first guys to tout this I can recall.
These group 3 oils are often blended with group 4 to offer very high or ""extended protection blends like 15K
A Group 4's or manmade PAO formulation are synthesized differently and considered the top ranking of what definable as synthetic. . Oils like Mobil ones annual protection (20K) have a very high percent of PAO in them but are still blended with group 3+.
If someone says fully synthetic they should be able to answer how much PAO in the blend.
You can look up the honda conoco formulation at the PQIA website.
http://pqiadata.org/Honda_0W20.html
UD
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31,951 Posts
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
UPDATE: It appears there are currently two different part numbers for Honda full synthetic 0W-20 oil - 08798-9037 (silver bottle labeled "ultimate") and 08798-9063 (black bottle not labeled "ultimate") - the latter of which appears newer. The 08798-9037 is/was made by Phillips 66 for Honda. I can't find an MSDS or any information verifying whether or not Phillips 66 still makes the 08798-9063. It's possible Honda changed suppliers...again.
Obviously, "Honda" provided you with the wrong information. There's a half case of Honda Genuine Ultimate Full Synthetic 0W-20 oil sitting in my shop right now. The other half is in my Ridgeline's engine. They used to sell quarts of a 0W-20 synthetic blend part number 08798-9036, but it was discontinued.
UPDATE: It appears there are currently two different part numbers for Honda full synthetic 0W-20 oil - 08798-9037 (silver bottle labeled "ultimate") and 08798-9063 (black bottle not labeled "ultimate") - the latter of which appears newer. The 08798-9037 is/was made by Phillips 66 for Honda. I can't find an MSDS or any information verifying whether or not Phillips 66 still makes the 08798-9063. It's possible Honda changed suppliers...again.
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
I hate to say it, but at the quantum leaps lithium battery range is advancing this discussion may become a moot point sooner than later.:|
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/lithium-metal-battery-research-could-triple-ev-ranges/
I hate to say it, but at the quantum leaps lithium battery range is advancing this discussion may become a moot point sooner than later.:|
http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/lithium-metal-battery-research-could-triple-ev-ranges/
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
I know I'm a dinosaur, but I have never, (that's never) had an engine problem with any of my vehicles after driving several MILLION miles. I learned one important law for changing engine oil from one clients about 25 years ago. I'm absolutely anal about this one thing and NO, I don't use the mm. I am absolutely religious about changing oil every 5000 miles. This RL has 260,000 miles and still performs as it did the day it came off the showroom. I have no doubt it will easily top 300,000 miles.
I know I'm a dinosaur, but I have never, (that's never) had an engine problem with any of my vehicles after driving several MILLION miles. I learned one important law for changing engine oil from one clients about 25 years ago. I'm absolutely anal about this one thing and NO, I don't use the mm. I am absolutely religious about changing oil every 5000 miles. This RL has 260,000 miles and still performs as it did the day it came off the showroom. I have no doubt it will easily top 300,000 miles.
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Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
Almost any vehicle can attain high miles. High miles are common.
What isn't so common is a very tight engine at high mileage.
Without a leak down test as it sits , compared to beginning test when the vehicle was new - mileage alone tells us little.
We dont know what relative load the vehicle was subjected to, unless detailed records are kept as to how many miles it traveled vs towed what load through what route we have no idea how tough of a life it actually had.
A truck used primarily as an suv has an easy life.
A truck towing 80% its maximum 80% or more if its life will not have the life one lightly used will.
It could run great! - but be a gross polluter and fail an emission test miserably - these usually tell a great story with trucks.
UD
Almost any vehicle can attain high miles. High miles are common.
What isn't so common is a very tight engine at high mileage.
Without a leak down test as it sits , compared to beginning test when the vehicle was new - mileage alone tells us little.
We dont know what relative load the vehicle was subjected to, unless detailed records are kept as to how many miles it traveled vs towed what load through what route we have no idea how tough of a life it actually had.
A truck used primarily as an suv has an easy life.
A truck towing 80% its maximum 80% or more if its life will not have the life one lightly used will.
It could run great! - but be a gross polluter and fail an emission test miserably - these usually tell a great story with trucks.
UD
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
You do what makes you feel best. Why? Because you only have to live with yourself (well, maybe your family, too). If 5K makes you feel good about caring for your vehicle, that is what you should do.
In 1992, I met a man who taught offensive driving courses for certain agencies with nothing but letters in his name, as well as defensive courses for the rest of us. I don’t recall the make of the car he was driving, but it had about 150,000 miles on it at the time. He changed the oil (Mobil 1 sun) every 25,000 miles, and both oil and filter at 50,000. Several folks in my garage scoffed at this (3K was still pretty prevalent back in those days, 5K was still pretty experimental).
Today, many new cars have an interval of 10K recommended. My VW did. Porsche’s is 20K I think. Toyota is changing to 10K on most of their vehicles. Oil testing has proven that oil can protect MUCH longer than has ever been thought in our younger days. The military has switched to oil analysis, and dropped intervals almost completely, both on vehicles and aircraft.
But here’s a post I have saved that I found, dated back in 2012 on a forum about OCIs.
“I worked in a fleet environment (132 mack tractor trailors) A computer told us when to change it. Average was around 100,000 miles. So yea oil of today isnt the same as oil of yesterday. Even at 100.000 miles the computer would suggest to change it because of carbon build up not because the oil broke down.”
Granted, that’s probably all diesel engines. But 100K miles. And for soot, not because the oil wasn’t “good enough” any longer. 3K, 5K, 10K, 20K... your oil is still protecting your car.
You do what makes you feel best. Why? Because you only have to live with yourself (well, maybe your family, too). If 5K makes you feel good about caring for your vehicle, that is what you should do.
In 1992, I met a man who taught offensive driving courses for certain agencies with nothing but letters in his name, as well as defensive courses for the rest of us. I don’t recall the make of the car he was driving, but it had about 150,000 miles on it at the time. He changed the oil (Mobil 1 sun) every 25,000 miles, and both oil and filter at 50,000. Several folks in my garage scoffed at this (3K was still pretty prevalent back in those days, 5K was still pretty experimental).
Today, many new cars have an interval of 10K recommended. My VW did. Porsche’s is 20K I think. Toyota is changing to 10K on most of their vehicles. Oil testing has proven that oil can protect MUCH longer than has ever been thought in our younger days. The military has switched to oil analysis, and dropped intervals almost completely, both on vehicles and aircraft.
But here’s a post I have saved that I found, dated back in 2012 on a forum about OCIs.
“I worked in a fleet environment (132 mack tractor trailors) A computer told us when to change it. Average was around 100,000 miles. So yea oil of today isnt the same as oil of yesterday. Even at 100.000 miles the computer would suggest to change it because of carbon build up not because the oil broke down.”
Granted, that’s probably all diesel engines. But 100K miles. And for soot, not because the oil wasn’t “good enough” any longer. 3K, 5K, 10K, 20K... your oil is still protecting your car.
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
5,000 miles between oil changes might have made sense 25 years ago, but engines are very different now. For typical driiving, it is wasteful to change the oil that often on a modern engine.
And I saw a very interesting oi analysis awhile back. Can't remember all of the science, but the conclusion was that full synthetic oil is great, but synthetic blend is absolutely no better than conventional oil.
5,000 miles between oil changes might have made sense 25 years ago, but engines are very different now. For typical driiving, it is wasteful to change the oil that often on a modern engine.
And I saw a very interesting oi analysis awhile back. Can't remember all of the science, but the conclusion was that full synthetic oil is great, but synthetic blend is absolutely no better than conventional oil.
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
Did everyone miss the dinosaur sentence? I grew up on a family farm 60 years ago where we had about 12 engines on farm equipment to maintain. This was long before synthetic oils and where the real enemy was dust. We didn't have any engine failures because we did preemptive maintenance and used quality parts. I guess some of that must have stuck with me because I don't use a mm on anything I own.
I'm also a pilot where maintenance is vitally important. So, that is why I still change my oil at 5000 mile intervals. I don't want a problem and so far in my life, I've escaped any unpleasant surprises while driving on the terra firma or in the air.
Did everyone miss the dinosaur sentence? I grew up on a family farm 60 years ago where we had about 12 engines on farm equipment to maintain. This was long before synthetic oils and where the real enemy was dust. We didn't have any engine failures because we did preemptive maintenance and used quality parts. I guess some of that must have stuck with me because I don't use a mm on anything I own.
I'm also a pilot where maintenance is vitally important. So, that is why I still change my oil at 5000 mile intervals. I don't want a problem and so far in my life, I've escaped any unpleasant surprises while driving on the terra firma or in the air.
Re: 1st Oil Change Synthetic Not Used??
I am also a pilot, and we never change the oil in our engines unless the oil lab tells us to. No specific interval at all.
I am also a pilot, and we never change the oil in our engines unless the oil lab tells us to. No specific interval at all.
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